Title slate: The Eleventh Hour #185, The Walkers, Rec: 5/2/89

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Host Lipsyte in studio announces show, welcomes viewers and introduces himself.

Still photo of Alice Walker as a child and with her mother

B&W photo still of Walker with her infant child and mother.

Color photo Walker and her teenage daughter, Rebecca

Rebecca Walker:
I think that the problem with Mother's Day probably is that it focuses on one day of the year to appreciate mother's when probably we should do it all year round. Appreciate your mother every day, every day of the year, every moment why? I think because my mother is the one person who might completely and fully trust and and feel completely and fully trust me and knows me and is willing to let me do and be whoever in whatever I want. And trust me enough to know that those will be good things that I'll be doing and being

Robert Lipsyte:
that's wonderful. Alice, did you feel the same way about your mother?

Alice Walker:
Oh yes, yes, I have great love and respect for my mother. She was very strong and also very gentle, very forthright. And I learned I learned so much from her. I learned about you know things about how to be in the world and about how how to care for other people from my mother.

Robert Lipsyte:
Was Mother's Day a holiday that was celebrated in rural Georgia when you grew up.

Alice Walker:
I don't think so. I don't think so. I think for me, it's sort of a Latter Day invention. I don't remember that there was a Mother's Day. Only later I you know, when I was a teenager, I remember that my older brothers would say My mother these huge, beautiful cards each year. But we tend to think of Mother's Day, actually, now that I think of it, what we did on Mother's Day was to go to the cemetery and place flowers on the graves of our mothers on my mother's grave. And we were red roses if our mothers were alive and white roses if they had died. That's what we did.

Robert Lipsyte:
That's lovely. One of the things that that really struck me is is your fear, your early fear that somehow your your creativity would be sapped? Is that correct? by a child?

Alice Walker:
Oh, yes. Well, because we're taught that if you have a child, that is your creation, you then are not expected to write books you're split. And that's what I was afraid of when Rebecca was was born, I just didn't know i mean, i, there I was, with Rebecca and one one arm and then riding with the other hand. And I just didn't know if I could do both things. But then I started to learn from Rebecca. And it's, it's been wonderful. I'm all for one child. Everyone should have one child that they want a child, because that's really manageable.

Robert Lipsyte:
Well, you're lucky. That was close. How do you feel when you when you hear that?

Rebecca Walker:
I have mixed feelings, I think, a couple of years ago, I would fear that and feel a little bit nervous, a little anxious a little, as if I was a burden, I am a burden. I'd be nervous about how much he loved me and how secure we were and but I've, I've learned that I really don't have to worry about my mother's love that her work demands a lot of her. And sometimes my role as a daughter is to just allow her to do that work and not to need so much from her. But I always feel secure in that love that it's there.

(INTERVIEW INSERTED)
Robert Lipsyte:
Alice, would you say that you've learned from Rebecca, what does that mean?

Alice Walker:
Well, you know, I had no idea, first of all, what it was like to have a child in your body, and then to give birth to a child. And when I had Rebecca, I was suddenly connected to all the mothers in the world. And I understood, at last, the struggle that that most women have when they when they give birth, it hurts a lot. You know, it's very uncomfortable. It's a very difficult process. And there should be real ceremonies to celebrate this incredible creation of women. I mean, that just the the act of giving birth itself is a major miracle. And that's what I learned. I mean, when I saw Rebecca, for the first time, I couldn't believe it. I really couldn't believe it. It just seemed, it seemed impossible. But it happens every day. It happens every minute.

Robert Lipsyte:
That's so eloquent. Do you see any paradox between that and the fact that the two of you marched together for a woman's right to an abortion?

Alice Walker:
Oh, I think that, you know, we both feel that women have the right to control their own bodies, you know, I mean, because we also know that many women are forced to give birth when they don't want to, and they are forced to have 12 and 15 and 20 children, you know, when we have known people I have, who have had that many children who were the, you know, Fannie Lou Hamer, for instance, who was a fabulous civil rights leader, was one of 21 children. Now, what about her mother?

Robert Lipsyte:
Well, you were the last of the eight. What about your mother?

Exactly? Well, my mother was tired. And my mother would not have had eight children. If she had had a choice. Isn't that kind of a chilling thought? Well, you know, like, Rebecca, in a way, it used to bother me a lot, because she would say, you know, I really wanted six children. She wanted six, because her mother had 12. So she thought, well, six, you know, so then she had eight. And I used to think well, gee, you know, she I'm here and I, you know, maybe she really didn't want me and she didn't love me. But actually, she did love me. And she she did the best that she could. But I do sometimes wish that she had had birth control that abortion had been, you know, free and easy. So, if she didn't want to have me she went back to, you know,
.
Robert Lipsyte:
The tangible gifts that se gave you. The sewing machine, the typewriter, the suitcase. seemed like such an Independence Day Gift. How wonderful. What would you give Rebecca?

Alice Walker:
I would give Rebecca the truth. And that is why we have this conversation. You know about how do you feel when your mother says that, you know, she had you and she was worried and, and I can say that I felt divided. I mean I, I can only tell her exactly as much as I can, what it was like for me, you know, and I trust her to believe, you know, in my love. But I feel that the truth is what she absolutely has to have in order to survive and and to flourish.

(INTERVIEW CONTINUTES)

Robert Lipsyte:
Well now that you planted in her mind. Did you have you thought about that before? I mean, did you have a sense of that kind of hypocrisy going on that people were easier with you than perhaps with a darker

Rebecca Walker:
With us I don't think but I see it in the world daily. It's not like it doesn't exist. I don't think I've ever felt it. Because people respond to you mostly so well. But but the in the writing? I think you said that I'll go further than you ever could have gone. Is that what she said?

Alice Walker:
No, no, no, I think they were talking about the one of the musicians in Georgia that we support. We have a scholarship fund and Someone once asked me whether I think, yeah, they asked me whether the saxophonist or some musician that we sponsored. We know whether her fame would be as big as mine. And I just said it would be much larger. No, but I don't think I've ever she was lighter. Oh, no, no, no. Just because, you know, what can you say when someone says to you, well, you know, do you think her fame is going to be like yours? I mean, here she is she's 17

Robert Lipsyte:
Speaking of fame, it always seemed to me that the the the kind of the chemistry between mothers and daughters was well beyond interesting. It was mysterious, certainly to me as as a husband and father No, but it seems even more interesting when the mother is famous. Which is less likely than sons having famous fathers in this society. Is that it? What is your name in Yale by the way?

Rebecca Walker:
My name in Yale is Rebecca Walker. Yeah, Rebecca Walker. I changed it two years ago. Why don't my father's last name. I felt much more connected to my mother than I did to my father much more connected to my grandmother than to my father's father, who the name came down from who disowned him when he was eight, who I feel no connection whatsoever with.

Robert Lipsyte:
Is that a feminist statement or just something very emotional. Or can you not separate?

Rebecca Walker:
Probably both. I mean, a feminist statement was my statement. It was me, I guess I'm a feminist. But I'm all for starting a mat or matriarch or matrilineal line so that our mothers get more credit than they usually do. I don't think it's too mysterious. If you being famous as my mom, or two into different, it's exciting. I love the way people respond to you. And I guess I feel that we have a privacy and an intimacy that other people don't have and I like that Do you think there's any thing exciting about you being a famous mother?

Alice Walker:
Well, I don't think of myself that way, you know, I just think about trying to be big, I want to be really good mother to Rebecca, and I want to, you know, give her whatever she needs that I have to help her along.

Robert Lipsyte:
Do you still think you need to I mean, she's, she's 19 years old, she looks very together.

Alice Walker:
Well, I think I will always be her mother, you know, and, and that there may be a few things here and there, you know, along the way, in my 40s, that I can suggest, or that I can point out, or that I can share. I mean, I think what where we are now though, is more at the stage where we share as friends and equals. And that's great

(INTERVIEW CONTINUES)

Robert Lipsyte:
Do you subscribe to your mother's theory that an artist should only have one child?

Rebecca Walker:
I'm not sure. I think I have to have one first before I I know the answer to that. I think I probably will once I see exactly how hard it is. And again with the way the world is I'm not sure if having two children just be too much.

Robert Lipsyte:
Back to the abortion March the two of you marching together in terms of women taking control of their of their bodies. What does that mean in particular for black women?

Alice Walker:
Um, well, you know, we've had so many years centuries really, when when we had no control at all over over how many children we had. That's why so you know, so many had 12 and 15 and 20. And then we had to watch these children really either sold away from us during the period of slavery, or you know, we watch them even today having to perform in really terrible jobs or no jobs, you know, so so it's like, you keep producing children. And if you have no control over how many you can, can, you know, you produce you have even less control over what the world then gives, you know, gives to to these children or what they can give to it

Robert Lipstye:
because there's always the contraversy that one, the abortions rights movement is basically a white middle class movement. And that to some people have kind of talked about that streak of genocide in groups that would have black women in particular, use more birth control, or use abortion, What's your feeling about that?

Alice Walker:
Well, you know, I think actually, the abortion is a very good issue for white people. Because even though they may have fewer children, they use up most of the, you know, what is produced in the world, you know, someone pointed out that we are 6% of the population, I mean, speaking of the West, and we use up 60% of the world's energy. Now, most of that is really white people, you know, middle class and upper class white people. So they really should, I mean, it's, it's very important for the planet, that they limit the number of children that they produce, because we can't keep supporting, you know, the big houses and cars and furs, and whatever, for all of these people. I mean, that's just the reality. So but but for black women, you know, black women work very hard. We do, we work and we support our families. And we cannot do that in good health. If we have too many, we just can't. So it's not a question of genocide. It's, it really is for black women. And for white women, it's a matter of caring about the planet, the limitations of resources, and the control that is necessary, you know, for producing healthy children and having healthy families.

Robert Lipsyte:
I guess, Rebecca, you agree with everything your mother says? Yeah. Did you know your grandmother?

Rebecca Walker:
Which one? My mother's your mother? Yes, she's still alive?

Robert Lipstye:
And could you tell us about your perceptions of Alice's relationship with her.

Rebecca Walker:
I think they're very similar to my relationship with mom, except that we've had the chance to be more, I think that with my mom and her mom, because my grandmother worked so much, and because my mom in order to sort of save herself, had to leave home and go to college. And then when by the time she came back, it was just too hard to live in Georgia with my grandmother that they never got quite the sense of the day to day, knowing and experiencing and sharing with each other that we have. I think it's, it's sad for both of us, I feel that I don't know my grandmother, as well, as much as I would like to.

(INTERVIEW CONTINUES)

Robert Lipsyte:
It sounds like you got an attitude more than an education.

Alice Walker:
Well, I think No, I got what I needed to continue my own work.

Robert Lipsyte:
Where would you send your daughter? Based on what you know, now,

Rebecca Walker:
I think I would probably send her to Yale or to Spelman, whichever she chose. I think that Yale has awful things about it. And it's very difficult place to be for us. But it is when you think relatively probably one of the most liberal as a lot of people on campus like to say campuses around

Robert Lipsyte:
We're running out of time. We're almost out of time. Do you have any advice for daughters on Mother's Day?

Rebecca Walker:
Daughters on Mother's Day, talk to your mother asked her where she's been what she wants to tell you. Try to be as true to yourself and to her and to her mother as you can be.

Robert Lipsyte:
Are you glad to hear that?

Alice Walker:
Oh, I'm very glad. Yeah

Rebecca Walker:
Advice for daughters and mothers.

Alice Walker:
Well, think of the future generations Let every decision be a decision in the Native American tradition of thinking about the seventh generation.

Robert Lipsyte:
Alice Walker, Rebecca Walker. Happy Mother's Day. Thanks for this is the 11th hour. I'm Robert Lipsyte.

Show ends. Lipsyte announces show and introduces himself.

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