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00:02:47 0.37 |
PEEP SHOWS, DIRTY MOVIES, AND MASSAGE PARLORS & THE PEOPLE WHO RUN THEM--REEL AND INTERVIEW BEGINS
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00:02:47 1.27 |
David Susskind
Now men who make their livings from pornography Bernard Sackett owns the odd Movie House in Philadelphia and it only plays X movies. He also produced the erotic film, erotic con. Martin Ross operates Marty's adult world bookstores and peep shows in the state of Connecticut. Bob Brown has a number of pornographic bookstores in New York and Long Island. He is also the publisher of several male magazines. Filmmaker Wakefield Poole has directed and produced a number of X films, including boys in the sand, and Bijou. The New York Times has called Martin Hodas, the king of the peep show business in New York. What meanit that, Martin Hodas. How many peep shows do you have? Martin Hodas Jeeze, I've lost count? Maybe a couple of 100 David Susskind peep shows? Martin Hodas Yes, peep shows David Susskind various stories showing dirty Martin Hodas Yes I have. No, not dirty. No sexually orientated material. No one's ever classified them as dirty. I've never heard that expression used David Susskind Martin Hodas when I look in the peep show, what do they see? Martin Hodas They see. You could say simulated sex. In other words, boys and girls together, they're nude and the like, mild form of showbusiness, you could say, David Susskind a mild form of show business Martin Hodas in the nude, and they go through acts of lovemaking, but you'll never see explicit sex. David Susskind And you have a couple of 100 of these establishments. Martin Hodas Yes. David Susskind Are you getting rich? Martin Hodas No, not really. It's, it's been pretty rough. Really has because in the last year or so I would say the people in my business are not subjected to the same laws that a murderer or a rapist or a mugger is we were a bit far below them. Now. We've reached the point where David Susskind Do you feel that Martin Hodas I don't feel it. It's so. It's so. It's actually happened. In other words, we do not get the same. Would you like an example? David Susskind You mean you have? In your own mind the rapist Martin Hodas I'd like to give you en example. It's not in my mind. no, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't just make a statement without backing it up. So I'll give you an example, about six months ago, New York City in order to go ahead and try and put the peep shows out of business because they felt that this was an easy target and easy mark, decided to license the machines after being in business for four years, five years running without a license, they decided to license the machines. So they went ahead and got a decree from a judge. So they gave us 30 days in which to get a license. Now, I went down and made applications for all my stores for licenses, they wouldn't even accept the applications. And I thought it was completely ridiculous. And after 30 days, we're up. The cops came in and they arrested everybody, all the clerks and everybody that was in the store at the time. They arrested everybody for not having licenses then getting summons or anything, arrested them. Now my attorney got ahold of the proper people in New York and said, Well, what is this? What kind of business the judge goes ahead says get licenses. They won't even accept the applications. How do you expect a man to get a license? And it was just about told in a roundabout way? We don't expect to give them any licenses. Now you can't tell me David Susskind You're being hounded The point is is Martin Hodas it more than hounded. This is a matter of just David Susskind And it's intollerable. I mean you'r a legitimate. You're a legitimate businessman. You should be left alone. Martin Hodas Absolutely. not left alone. If they if they if they if they want to license us, give us a license. That's all but don't say get a license and then deny us the license. David Susskind Wakefield Poole you make dirty movies. Wakefield Poole I make erotic films. Yes. David Susskind They the same thing erotic. Wakefield Poole It's hard to define David David Susskind your actors simulating sex or performing sex Wakefield Poole No I do hardcore films. David Susskind Hardcore films mean what? Wakefield Poole Meaning there is penetration. And it's the ultimate supposedly of porno films, hardcore pornography. It's not to the extent that Marty's is where it's simulated. It's for real. David Susskind Why Do you do that? Wakefield Poole I think there's a need for it. Definitely for it. David Susskind Who needs that? Wakefield Poole The people that are coming to see my movies must need David Susskind Are they sick people? Wakefield Poole No, I don't think they're sick people. I don't consider myself sick. I don't consider the people who work for me sick. David Susskind What healthy person needs because that's your word needs to go to see people making love to people on the screen. Wakefield Poole I think maybe I can explain it this way. From the time I was you know, so high. I was taught to love and in loving oneself vulnerable, and that's the epitome of love. And at no time Except when people are having sex are the most vulnerable. And I think to show that to people at their most vulnerable, and being able to look at it and see this, I think it's a beautiful thing. It's not dirty. It's not |
00:07:59 312.37 |
David Susskind
Wakefield Poole, you worked out, or elaborate. Ratiocination Wakefield Poole No, I really firmly believe that David Susskind Youy're making dirty movies. Wakefield Poole To you, David, I'm making dirty movies but to myself David Susskind To the customer. Wakefield Poole No, I'm not making dirty movies, David Susskind who's coming to see boys in the sand? Wakefield Poole Quite a few people David Susskind homosexuals? Wakefield Poole Homosexual straight. Largely, yes, it's I made them for a gate audience. Because I'll tell you how I started to make them I saw one myself and I fell asleep. And the people were with me laughing. I thought this is this is dirty. You know, it's not. It's not real. And that's why I got interested, I've been in the theater for 20 years of my life, television. I've done big television shows. Ed Sullivan. Gary Moore as a performer I just feel that there is a time now. That's why I put my name on my film. It is my name. And I'm subject to arrest because I have my name on the film, they can come and get me right here and take me out the store. And I can spend up to seven years in jail. But it's it's something that I believe in, I think it is one of the most beautiful things in the world is sex. And it also expresses an idea if a person can can see something and see two people relating to one another, not only on a sexual level, and I'm not talking about just penetration, I'm talking about relating as to human beings. And that's what I'm into doing in films. I'm into showing those people relate. I'm showing the need, I'm showing all the things that make up the human being. It's what I'm trying to show in my movies, and I think I'm succeeding. I've been very successful. So I can only base that on my succeeding artistically. And what I want to do I want to make artistic films, I want to make erotic films, films that aren't dirty a film that you could go to see and say, That is a beautiful film, a film that challenges the mind as well as the crotch so to speak, you know? David Susskind Barney Barnard Sackett Hi David David Susskind you will have a theater in Philadelphia plays dirty movies is that fair to say. Barnard Sackett No, I show musical comedies drenched in sex. That's what it really is. People come to be amused. David, David Susskind do you have the same kind of rather elaborate rationale for what you do as Wakefield? Barnard Sackett I have no rationale. I have a theater that's played besides X rated films. We play Charlie Chaplin. I played a Jewish film. French Film David Susskind I know. Your fame Barnard Sackett We still have sex with subtitles. Right? David Susskind You really play sexy pictures. Barnard Sackett Now we're doing okay. David Susskind Do you have any self consciousness about doing that? Barnard Sackett No, because we have a very nice operation. David, the people come to our theater. Don't come with raincoats, hats, we have the concession. But they come without these things. And they can't enjoy themselves. Because you know, you can learn something from something's being done on the screen, even with inexperienced sexual performers. I have had David Susskind Are your movie showing sexual intercourse. Barnard Sackett Oh, yeah. Yeah, David Susskind hardcore pornography. Barnard Sackett Well it all depends what you mean by David Susskind The definition of Wakefield Poole. Hardcore Barnard Sackett Well, if the if judges if the Supreme Court has yet to pass down the decision, what is pornography? How can we as lay people know you're an attorney? David Susskind I'm not an attorney. Barnard Sackett You were at one time an attorney David David Susskind No, never. No, never. I don't want to be charged with that. I've never been an attorney Barnard Sackett I'm going to have to check that biography of yours. The uh... David Susskind if you show show hardcore pornography on the screen, that's pornography. Barnard Sackett But what is pornography? David Susskind Pornography is that which appeals to poor end interest? That's what the court said. Barnard Sackett that's what the court said that people come to my theater come to be entertained. They can't perform any sexual act in the theater. They might learn something they come to be amused. They come with a sense of humor. They come to kill an hour, an hour and a half or two hours. We don't stop you from walking out of the theater if they pay the $3. David Susskind Is there a similarity and type that comes to your theater? Aren't they men middle aged men Barnard Sackett No David, believe it or not. We get them we say 21 and over but if someone comes in with a draft card, we feel we can get killed for that for United States. And you can also come and be entertained by the people United States. So we let them in. We have young people, we have girls coming by themselves. We have women who come in by themselves. We even have Believe it or not. A major railroad has a luncheon every Monday and after the lunch they come in to be entertained for 30 40 minutes, believe it or not. They even sign a guest book David Susskind The board of directors? Barnard Sackett I never asked them David Susskind A major railroad. who's coming? The porters the conductor's Barnard Sackett well, they could be major members, you know, but no, these are executives Believe it or not, and we have a guestbook. You know, people came in and were afraid what they were seeing when they put their name on a guest book. Seriously with their name, address phone number? Not at all. David Susskind I've heard everything... a guest book in a porno movie. We'll be back tomorrow the stunning revelations in a minute. |
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Studio interview returns:
David Susskind Marty Ross you're from Connecticut, and that's a very conservative state. How do you keep your peep shows and bookstores going up there, Martin Ross pay a lot of legal fees. lawyers working full time. In this space, what keeps me going? We have a fairly decent law on obscenity in Connecticut. They call it redeeming social value. And as yet no one's decided exactly what redeeming value is. And until I do, we are able to remain open. David Susskind Do You think there's some redeeming value in the peep shows you show Martin Ross by all means? David Susskind What redeems them, Martin Ross very simple. A man comes in or a woman puts his quarter in the machine and he gets a chance to relax, see something you can't normally see on television or in a normal movie house. We show simulated movies without complete penetration complete explicit sex, but it's enough so that a man is able to relax and think about something other than business, I find that our movie machines are going more during the lunch hour when the executives come in, rather than the other time. David Susskind What sort of books are you selling? Martin Ross I sell any book that I feel has some redeeming value along it has an article in there that describes what's going on and has some value as far as the reader is concerned. As far as sex is concerned. We'll put the book on the shelf. Of course we do cover any book that is what we consider hardcore so that it can't be gazed that within the store. David Susskind Bob Brown in addition to owning bookstores, pornographic bookstores, you publish magazines, Bob Brown yes, but you don't mind David if I if I make a correction here because I'm very disturbed by the use of the word pornographic bookstores or pornography. These gentlemen are selling what they called pornography. I am not in that category. David Susskind What are you selling? Bob Brown We sell simulated sex which under no definition is pornography. Incidentally, appealing to the prurient interest means appealing to the unwholesome sex interest. Pornography does not appeal to the unwholesome sex interest. It appeals to the normal sex interest, but we don't sell it no matter what kind of interest it appeals to. We abide by the law in every state we're in. David Susskind In other words, because what you sell is simulated sex. That's against demonstrated sex Bob Brown Right it is perfectly legal and it is sex oriented. And it is sex material the same as Playboy is a sex magazine. But Playboy is not called pornography, except by somebody who just feels like calling it pornography. We do not sell pornography, we sell sex magazines, which is a perfectly legal thing to sell. And we are in a perfectly legal business, which the DA is and police rprefer to pretend is not sold Bob Brown Do the police radio periodically Do they give you a hard time. Bob Brown If I had all the money, it cost me for the illegal arrests that the police have made. And the amount of cases we have one in three seconds in a courtroom because there was no right on the part of the police. I believe I could probably retire\ David Susskind if what you're doing is legal. And moral, I would assume you'd say why are the police harassing you? Bob Brown I would think Well, why why would the police do all the things that police do? Why are the newspapers full of graft and corruption on the part of the police? I don't know why the police know anything. I don't know why we need 33,000 Police in a city in New York. David Susskind Well, because they want to deal with the crime problem. Bob Brown Oh, they're not dealing with any crime problem, David, I can tell you from my own knowledge. David Susskind It's not all in your store. Bob Brown Oh, yes, they are not all 33,000, but we get eight at a time in our store. We get eight at a time in a store that does not sell anything illegal, because it's a very easy arrest. And they're going to kill four or five hours on that perhaps eight or 10 for the one or two I have to go downtown and fill out the reports. It's a beautiful way To earn the money and live quietly and then retire on a pension, I think that's an ideal job. I took the wrong kind of job. That's the job I should have taken. And I could have done very well, without the graft. |
00:28:35 1548.32 |
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Slate Card - Countdown clock
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Studio interview resumes:
David Susskind Would you agree with Wakefield's analysis that this stuff is good for people? It keeps them from further degeneracy. Barnard Sackett David, I don't care if it's good for people and not good for people. I think when Busby Berkeley came out with his dancing, fantastic dances nearly filmed, I don't think he ever concerned himself was the audience going to like it or not something he wanted to do? It was innovation in that period, people bought it. When Al Jolson came along and took off his black face and made hallelujah I'm a bumb 1933. The reviewers didn't know how to take to this because they were used to mammy. He felt he wanted to do something. And Louis milestone said is a great idea. Let's do it. I don't care what people want or don't want, I feel people have to be interested in what they want to do. I thought I wanted to have a small theater. I wanted to put this type of film if I saw the change my mind I put something else. And it's what I like to do to entertain myself. And people I thought might like to follow in my footsteps. It's not whether they going to buy it or not buy it if they don't buy it, we change. It's like anything else. Someone writes a book if it doesn't sell. So it's like Emily post one two, Alfred A Knopf, many years ago, wrote a novel. And Mr. knopf said to her Miss post, you can't write a word, you don't know what life is, the thing you should do is write about things no one knows anything about. So she wrote about etiquette, because no one knew anything about etiquette. It bought, it sold. Now the point is, pornography, whatever it means, I don't know. And I don't really care to know. Because if people want to label it, as long as they pay to see it, that I'm paying my people, I'm employing people. I also have a sense of humor about the business. That's all I'm concerned about. If we start writing and taking surveys, this is all wrong, because I'm David Susskind You don't think for a minute, or you wouldn't care that you might be damaging people in some way. Barnard Sackett We're not we're not shooting anyone. We're not going to Vietnam, we're not killing people. No one is taking you by your hand and taking up to that box office and saying, Mr Susskind can I put down $3 You are on your own, you're over 21 You make up your own decision what you want to do David Susskind What about the charge that you're debasing tastes, appealing to the primitive instincts of people Barnard Sackett And you can't people have instincts? It depends upon the shadows in which they live. And when it's going to come out. Whether pornography is good bring it out, or Chinese food is going to bring it out? We don't know You don't know. I don't know. You can take many surveys. And who says the right or wrong? You don't know. And I don't know. It all boils down to one thing, basic tastes for the individual. And that's what you must live when you go to bed at night. David, you must live with yourself. David Susskind Is your conscience clean? Barnard Sackett Absolutely. David Susskind Yours Bob Brown Mine is not only clean, but I really wanted to get into something right here. The former president appointed a commission to study obscenity and pornography really and truly for the first time in the history of the United States to do a real thorough job. And they did. They took two years, spent $2 million and did a magnificent job and turn out a number of volumes quite thick. There's one major volume that can be bought from the United States Government Printing Office for five and a half dollars and we get most of these people all the information they need. They're 18 people primarily involved in compiling all this information and they had assistance of various codes. They made certain recommendations based on this two year study which cost $2 million and they did a fine research job. They recommended that all laws regarding sex for adults be stricken from the books. The only things that they recommended that perhaps might appeal to those who would like to suppress this are two points, just two. One was that the stuff not be available to children? David Susskind Thar's impossible to keep these things Bob Brown that's absolutely possible. It is absolutely possible and nobody sells this to children, anybody who pretends that any dealer in this merchandise sells this to children is a liar. That's just plain and simple that there are signs on every one of these sex stores, you must be 18 You must be 21 You must be this and you must prove it. And they question these people when they walk in David Susskind you come up to a customer in your place Marty Martin Hodas And there is no I will say this, there is absolutely no chance whatsoever of an individual. Now the law says 18, we make a 21. Because the cops would just love to have one thing to hang their hat on, they can't. Like Bob said before, I would say 98% of the arrest of the main are illegal and have no foundation no basis whatsoever. And it is practically impossible for an individual under the age of 21 to walk into any of these stores, bookstores, peep shows or anything else in New York. And it is basically impossible because they are screen this is the one thing that clerks are told, if a guy looks 30 I mean, if a fella is close to it, and he can't show any proof at all we just say we're sorry dismiss he cannot come in. Because we have to try and keep with the letter of the law there as well as possible so that we can't give them any real good excuse to make a real you know what I mean? An actual good pinch, Barnard Sackett Martin, I'm curious player on the books, does it say anyone 21 years of age and over, can go into a house that shows hardcore or go into a bookshop or peep show that shows hardcore? Many films. Where on the books? Martin Hodas No, there is a war there is a law in New York that says that under under the age of 18, or 17, I think was changed to 17. Now, right? There is a law that says that you cannot allow this individual under the age of 17 to either, you know view any sexually orientated material or to buy there is a law that says that no, you're in New York. Yes. And I don't know anything about outside the state. I don't know. I'm pretty sure that this law is nationwide as the age might vary from I think it's I think it's nationwide and David Susskind Given youe word that you would not sell to children? What kind of customers do you have? Are they creepy people? Martin Hodas I just like to say one thing before anyone says, I have one store down Wall Street area. Talk about creepy people. Right now. This is my best store. Okay, should I answer the question? What kind of people? This is Wall Street? On the other hand, what I'm telling you is is that brokers, customers, men, white collar workers, insurance executives. That's it. Barnard Sackett First of all David it costs. $5. David Susskind Your movie house cost $5 Barnard Sackett No, no I'm talking about Martin's bookstore Martin Hodas No no no I'm talking about peep shows a quarter Wakefield Poole My movie cost five. Barnard Sackett Okay. Now let's go to the bookshops that sell. These magazines, perhaps like Bob has for $5. There's similarity rates from $1 to five. Alright, but point Bob Brown three and a half and five. David Susskind Three and a half dollars fo Bob Brown A cup of coffee is 25 cents David Susskind That's the only think I know of that costs more than $1. Martin Ross He deals basically with simulated sexual magazines. And most of the material I sell today is hardcore sexual magazines. And these range in price from five to $15. Right. And for this reason, we don't get young adults or teenagers even interesting coming into the store. First, I think that sex in the home is so wide open today, they don't really need this type of thing to get them excited in any way. So I feel that I'm dealing basically with adults, we deal as much with women as we do with men. As far as the male magazines are concerned, I sell more male magazines to women and older women, I do to the gay audience, because they have the same interest in the male body. As a man would have looking at a female body. No one wants to admit it. I don't want to realize it. Bob Brown Well, I would disagree with that. I think most of my customers are male customers and not female. But what you're telling me is startling to me and I produce it David Susskind Why do you charge $3.50 For example, the best. Normal magazine is $1 Why is a pornographic magazine? Why is a sex magazine. Bob Brown David I'm delighted that US died course. David Susskind Why is the sex magazine three and a half dollars Bob Brown it's three and a half dollars for an unbelievably simple reason. There is color. There is black and white. There is printing, there is paper there is binding, there is distribution and there is overhead. There are almost no ads that are paid for Playboy magazine puts out. I believe it's 7 million copies per month, every single month, month in and month out. They have an enormous amount of ads for December 1970 I just happen to know that figure The amount of advertising they had in that one issue was $4 million. Barnard Sackett Is that thing stopping you from getting ads for your amount magazines? Bob Brown Not particularly, but I, I don't know whom I could attract. I don't know if the advertisers I would get would pay. Barnard Sackett Well, the 52 Street Playhouse is play Wakefield Poole's picture, which is catering to the gay audience, bijou, you so they would probably put an ad in your magazine Bob Brown You're right. But it's something I hadn't thought of. And I will know. Barnard Sackett But I get a commission. Wakefield Poole There is something I want to say about that to David said, you know, junkies and people like that habit, these places. We have a taxi, taxi trade at the 55th where Bijou play, and they come in taxis and get out men and women. very well dressed David Susskind Bijou your movie is about what Wakefield Poole Bijous is about a construction worker. And it's about a heterosexual man who witnesses an accident, a woman sit by car in front of Lincoln Center. And he takes her purse and steals it. It falls at his feet after she's hit. And there's nothing in it a value but a ticket to a place called the Bijou. And he goes and it's a place where women go and men or service the women and they react totally to him as if it's the most natural thing in the world. That's the whole basis for the movie. It's my so called sexual freedom statement. It's the way things are today and the way things are going there. No Labels anymore. I think I think it's getting more general. Barnard Sackett I don't understand what what the taxi cabs have to do with secret. Wakefield Poole Oh, no, David said something about low people and the dirty people and I'm saying you know if they could come and pay $5 To see my move plus cab fare David Susskind The ones I have seen lined up at the dirty movie houses are really oddballs Barnard Sackett well, maybe we'll dirty. In other words, the old the old. Ripley's on Broadway is a dirty movie house the way they got this, these amateurish posters outside with with old magic markers or should be thrown away. No, no, that's a dirty movie house Bob Brown I still have to say something. And allow me to say the government spent $2 million on us and I must get this out. There were two recommendations they made in the affirmative, as far as those who would like to suppress this kind of material goal. One was that it be sold only to adults, and not to minors, very careful about that point. And in New York State, the age is 17. In New York, we all go by the age of 18 or higher, because you have to have a draft card at 18. So it's easy to second. The second one was that it should not be forced upon an unwilling public, which meant that if your window is displayed, sex oriented material that could be offensive, because of the cover designs. Well in that should not be in the windows. Now David, I don't know anybody in this industry, who objects to any rules that make any sense, provided the police and the courts would abide by the rules they tell us to abide by. They put down rules that don't make sense. They do not give us definitions that do they do get not give us clear rulings. Nobody can define pornography. They give us no guidelines. Much unlike most other businesses in the United States. They give us no guidelines. Then they come in and arrest us. They arrest us because a policeman decided that he thought something was illegal. The best we could hope for David Susskind No that isn't true Bob Brown Yes, it is, David. It absolutely is, David Susskind It's a community pressure. Bob Brown It is not a community pressure at all. It is a police attempt to get the heat off them because they're incompetent that grafters they're not doing their job or fighting in restaurants. David Susskind That is not true. There is a growing community pressure in this city. Bob Brown There is no Community pressure anywhere David David Susskind against the massage parlors the bookstores. The peep shows Martin Hodas There is no rolling community pressure against will say narcotics, they all want me to tell you something was a Citizens Committee of about six months ago that got together a whole mess of money and they opened up a little store in Eighth Avenue to go ahead and try and get and convict some pornographers of selling their merchandise down there. You know, this was in the papers and everything. I never read about a Citizens Committee people chipping in money privately to try and trap some dope peddlers. So some dope pushes there's a mug is there anything like that there? David Susskind There are a lot of such efforts going on. In Bedford Stuyvesant in Harlem Martin Hodas they're all what you mean when individual people took money right out of their pockets and gave it over to the police force and said I want you to do a better job David Susskind No, but we're private committees have been established. And self funded Martin Hodas try to making an issue out of something that just the Oh shouldn't be made. It's something that it's a it's a business which which basically David Susskind It's a business which is debasing the community and because it's proliferating Martin Hodas have you ever been in one of those stores? David Susskind Of course I've been in one of those stores Martin Hodas Did anyone drag you in David Susskind no I went in to see Martin Hodas to buy it, you didn't buy anything you wanted to buy something, you bought it for a man that wants to go in and make a purchase and, and take it home and view it and he gets satisfaction out of it. I don't understand it hurts David Susskind the proliferation of the peep show and the dirty movie show Martin Hodas They've got something to yell about. Now, if you didn't give them this, you took all the pornography as you turn the word out of New York or out of the country that find something else to yell about. Always people around that want to go and yell and holler. Bob Brown It's strictly a circus. That's all it is. It's an attempt to take people's minds off the pressures and problems of everyday living, the cost of living is up, robberies are increasing. The police are not doing their job. I'm going to say it again, I was going to say I'm not they still have their hands out. It's always going to be out 33,000 Cops, we could do with one half of that if they would do their job. They are not doing the job. David Susskind You're just mixing your problems. The problem with pornography is a problem quite distinct from the police and the job and the competince Bob Brown There is no problem with pornography. David Susskind There is a great problem with pornography Bob Brown David, we have a new definition that any legitimate businessman can abide by, we have no definition that a court David Susskind Well you may have a better definition this year out of the Supreme Bob Brown We don't have it now. We don't need to police me with an elementary school education, who knows nothing about what's going on, hold it come in and make his own arrest. David Susskind I'm sorry, I've got to give the sponsor some time to say his message we'll be right back. |
00:44:26 2499.36 |
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Studio interview resumes
David Susskind I would just at the point as a matter of fact it was a bit of an argument, I putting that aside about the police job is hassling you, and not the rest of Bob Brown It's not just hassleing me David, it's hassling everyone David Susskind I think what's happening is that there's a growing community consensus that pornography is disagreeable. Maybe they don't know what they're talking about. But that's how they feel and secondly that it depreciates the basis a neighborhood that the stores are sleazy that the customers are tacky, and that the community in which this flourishes, Time Square, New York, scaly, square Boston, whatever it may be, is depreciated that people don't wish to go there that it's not attractive or safe anymore Martin Hodas Who are the people. I mean, when you say the people, you know, we talk about you you have, you always have a group that likes to get in the limelight, or we have a group. In other words, I'll give you an idea one time I was on the Long John Neville show a couple of months ago, and they had telephone calls that came in as whether what people thought about it, and he was absolutely amazed. 90% of the people 90% He thought it would be 90% against were for it. 90% of the people were for it. And this was just a random phone calls coming in late David Susskind Well yourselves do you enjoy it. your business man and you're making a living, Martin Hodas It's not a matter of enjoying it or not enjoying it. I sell sex basically is that's what people want to buy. If the market call for bananas, I'd open up a banana store. Bob Brown I sell it for a different reason. I sell it for completely different reasons, David. one is probably going to annoy you. I sell it because a lot of people don't want me to sell it. David Susskind That's the damndist reasonI've ever heard Bob Brown I've been asked by many people, including my own family, why do you continue to sell this when it costs you money for lawyers, you're spending half your time in court? It doesn't matter that you're winning in cases. Why do you do this? And I say why shouldn't I? if it's legal? Why should I be told that I cannot sell it? David Susskind Most people assume Bob Brown It happens that it is legal. David Susskind There's a lot of money in pornography is there? There was one time Martin Hodas Yes, it wasn't one time Barnard Sackett Years ago it was a fantastic business. Yeah, my theater we should take maybe 8- $10,000 a week. That was two years ago. Now it's dropped down to about $3,000. David Susskind Right what's accounted for the cause Martin Hodas Because there are too many theaters? Not only that, but I'll tell your friends same sex. I mean, this is proven theory now sex becomes boring after a little while. I mean, there's no doubt about it. In other words, the same man that might have went to a movie when it first became available to him. He might have went twice a week or once a week whatever that man did. Now he goes maybe twice a week customer might be a once a two week customer now, because after a while the closest simulation with sex becomes very boring. You don't get the same kick out of it as you did. Barnard Sackett It was also more than that to where are they The theaters that used to show nothing more than the point so called porno films, a hardcore films you now get them in the regular commercial houses downtown Philadelphia, where I was the only one of its kind two years ago now. The the bud co chain brings in X rated films, the the downtown, the regular, you know the bringing in the 1000 2000. Seat houses used to bring in a PG films Cheetham bring an X rated films David Susskind Well will you operate as a theaters and when you makers of pornographic films, will you now go to greater lengths to attract an audience. Martin Hodas That's what killed it. Because, you see, I found out that when I first wanted to business I had girls would paste these and pants on. And all they did was get out there and tantalize a little bit you could say. And it was better than when you just show wall because basically I think a woman is a mystery. And you always want to read a book and wait till the last you keep on reading and reading and reading until the mystery is solved. But today, boom, you come into a poorly made hardcore film. And the right away it is the woman is nude in no time at all the mystery Solved boom just like that. No mystery. its dead It's boring. Bob Brown They're talking about film, but I am not in the film business. So I'm talking about magazines. The magazine business has fallen down considerably, too, David Susskind for the same reason. Bob Brown It's fallen down not because there are too many of them David Susskind public is satiated, Bob Brown it's falling down because the public is satiated. If as it used to be in the old days, there was fear that the stores would really truly be closed down as it was eight or 10 years ago, then the customers would come rushing in and spend a good deal of their money for fear that the store might not be in operation the following day. But that doesn't exist anymore. Everybody knows that these stores are going to be here. It doesn't matter that there are little skirmishes here and there. I mean, it doesn't matter that the DA doesn't know the law and doesn't care and he's in it for his convictions. I know you're not going to like that either. But that's the way they do it. David Susskind the business isn't flourishing if you in fact have already gone from 10,000 to 3000. Is there a point at which it's not worth the candle? Barnard Sackett Oh, sure. Next week, I'm changing the boy films. Martin Ross I remember we're about two years behind New York. And we're now in a new era as far as adult shops are concerned. It takes us about two years for Connecticut to catch on what happens in New York. And we're getting these the situation whereby we're getting raids and the next day businesses fantastic people feel a better going by this book. Because not be available the store might be closed down the next day Wakefield Poole the best thing that can happen nowadays to be rated especially even with the movie if you're rated your Oh, you're on the button because then regardless the front pages and bam you know you make $30,000 a week Barnard Sackett you know the problem is I say this whole thing has been blown out of proportion. First of all, you talk about the so called Dirty movie houses what you really mean the dirty looking movie houses not the thing they show the inside but the approach to the house. How many shoe stores are rundown how many supermarkets? That's right, a run desperate, but no one no organizations is being put together by the community to go clear out these little stores are proliferating the area because it'll look nice, because there's nothing to gain by there's nothing political Bob Brown especially restaurants on 42nd Street. Wakefield Poole Right David Susskind Are you saying that it's a hypocrisy? Wakefield Poole I most certainly do. Bob Brown Absolutely. And I don't question Barnard Sackett First of all you know, in Philadelphia, about eight, nine months ago, I may be wrong on the time, someone opened up a hardcore theater in the Northeast section of Philadelphia, where they always had the so called family type program. But the so called families weren't going out with their children to see these films. The man older theater had to make a living we're going to sell it for real estate. So he puts an X rated films next thing you know the women are up in arms someone is organized these women couple psychiatrist psych psychologist went and talked with these women that they found out they were sexually frustrated married women who got together to ban these X rated films David Susskind The survey opened by saying Are you sexually responsive Barnard Sackett How they went and approached these women? I don't know. But this was the report that came out. Now. There was an article in Time Magazine, not time time newspaper, about three, four years ago. It was a 3800. psychiatrist, a psychologist met in Chicago for convention they found that 87% of the people who fought against so called pornography were themselves having sexual problems. Now who really goes around all day long talking about pornography, or did you see this one? Do you talk about the restaurants you go to? of course not. how many people really go and talk about Martin Hodas all you need. All you need is a small dissenting group of people to make a big noise. You could have a community will say 20,000 people, you open up a little we'll say pornography shop, as you tern it and all you need David Susskind you make it sound like a garden Martin Hodas Right? It Yeah, all you need is like 20 people to voice 20 people out in a 20,000 are enough to make this thing that will bring the pressure upon this place. And that's that's what you have right now existing in this country today in this city and everywhere. You'll have a very, very small dissenting amount of people that make the noise. David Susskind Headed by the President United States why headed by the President. We'll be back in a Minute. |
00:53:10 3023.37 |
PEEP SHOWS, DIRTY MOVIES, AND MASSAGE PARLORS & THE PEOPLE WHO RUN THEM INTERVIEW--REEL ENDS
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