19901980s NEWS
The Eleventh Hour - Show #365
Title: Roper Round Table 3
Guests: 8 New York City Voters
The Original Broadcast Date: 5-16-90
Description:
Race relations, David Dinkins and the Yusuf Hawkins murder - round table discussion over Dinkins' using the horrible killing of Hawkins for political purposes.
Title: Roper Round Table 3
Guests: 8 New York City Voters
The Original Broadcast Date: 5-16-90
Description:
Race relations, David Dinkins and the Yusuf Hawkins murder - round table discussion over Dinkins' using the horrible killing of Hawkins for political purposes.
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Color Bars - WNET30
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Title Slate: The Eleventh Hour #365. Roper Roundtable 3. Rec: 5/16/90. Dir: Andrew Wilk
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Blank
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Funding by announcer. Charitable orgs overlay The Eleventh Hour graphic.
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Show opener
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Pan in on studio. Host Robert Lipsyte sitting in semicircle with guests.
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Pan in on Host Robert Lipsyte, four small tv screens in bkgd, he explains tonight's show about race relations and format, and refers to the killing of Yusuf Hawkins in August of 1989.
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Lipsyte welcomes viewers and introduces himself.
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Lipsyte continuing on the introduction of tonight's program on race relations and politics. He refers to an episode from the TV news show, Frontline, and the accusation of David Dinkins using Hawkins death for political purposes.
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B&W photo still David Dinkins holding small female child.
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Footage used in Frontline program - David Dinkins and others seen at doorway entrance of the family home of murder victim, Yusuf Hawkins. With narration by Frontline about how Dinkins seized the opportunity to promote his image as a "healer".
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Excerpt from Frontline of Reverend Al Sharpton talking with unseen interviewer about Dinkins visit to Hawkins home.
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Excerpt from Frontline interview with Dominic Carter of WLIB Radio about Dinkins' visit to Hawkins home
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Moses Stewart, Yusuf Hawkins' father, talking angrily with unseen unknown interviewer, about Dinkins' using his sons death as a political tool.
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Rev Al Sharpton continuing interview clip
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B&W photo, New York Mayor, David Dinkins looking contemplative. Al Sharpton talking about the 'political' visit to the Hawkins' home.
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Back with Dominic Carter continued interview about Hawkins'
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Footage of Dinkins' and others coming out of the Hawkins' home in Brooklyn.
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Media cameramen outside Hawkins' home - narration by Carter.
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David Dinkins' ssurrounded by many people speaking into WLIB mic pointed at him outside Hawkins' home in Brooklyn. Crowd is heard chanting.
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Cutaway to studio tilt down on Lipsyte and guests sitting in semi circle.
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Host Robert Lipsyte sitting in front of four small TV screens introduces the "Al Roper Roundtable" folk - eight New York City voters.
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Wide shot Lipsyte with guests in studio.
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INTERVIEW - ROPER ROUND TABLE GUESTS.
Robert Lipsyte: be a healer and bring the city together. What we've just seen Jane, what does that mean anything to you that change any thoughts in your head? Jane (NYC Voter) Well, the fact that he went into a time of mourning and use it as an opportunity to gain political strength, it does disturb me because I, I don't like, although a lot of politicians are very opportunistic, I think all would agree at that level. But I think it's very sad. And it shows very clearly on David Dinkins face when he walked out of there that he did that he was disappointed at what happened in there. It also shows restraint, as although many people have many fans of Al Sharpton it does show restraint on Al Sharpton as part even because Dominic Carter is correct. Al Sharpton could have came outside and could have really blasted David Dinkins at that moment. But he didn't. And I guess because he realized that the most important thing at that point was, you know, consoling the family. And yeah, I don't think David Dinkins is the healer. To be very honest with you, that I might have envisioned last year, nine months ago, you Robert Lipsyte Well nine months ago, you certainly felt that David Deakins was the healer. And you were probably among the most eloquent of the Roper 100 talked about, I wonder, and this is not necessarily in his his defense. Have we asked too much of this man. We loaded too much on his head, Arthur. Arthur (NYC Voter) I don't I certainly agree with Jane, but I don't question. Mr. Dinkins, his commitment to social justice. And that I think he has to be given full credit for where I am concerned about David Dinkins is that he does not also see the difficulties that are breaking out in the city. Also, in economic terms. I think that there's more than social justice involved. There's more than just a multiracial approach to the problems that we're facing. I think David Dinkins is going to have to work more closely with the community leaders in to try to find solutions to community problems that relate to jobs relate to health, education, job training, Robert Lipsyte You kind of send my magic word that comes down to economics. I mean, because one of the points of the frontline show was that race becomes a mask through which we whisper a lot of other things. Eric? Eric (NYC Voter) that that's plainly right. As far as I'm concerned. It's only so much that a politician can do and as far as I'm concerned, David Dinkins has performed admirably in this situation, he gave a fine speech, he said everything that should be said, but politicians and political speeches will only carry you so far. And that would be true. Whatever races were involved in a particular incident. Obviously, people need to have hope. People need to have a future people need to have faith in the justice system. And those things can't be created by speeches, those things can only be created by hard work on the part of individuals and by a continuing effort of the arrows in the city now. Oh, yes. As far as far as I'm concerned, in many ways, to the extent that all of these episodes focus our attention on some of these underlying institutions that need the work, it's a very positive result. And to the extent we can get beyond media images of particular flash points and put our attention to the institutions where the work Robert Lipsyte Let's talk about media images for a moment Alvin you feel we've been ill served by media images. Alvin (NYC Voter) I really think that we had racist problems before we have exactly the same problems. These problems. Unfortunately, newspapers, television, ride them for their worth. And right now, because this decision being made people worried about the decision and the verdict and the Bensonhurst case in my neighborhood, they think well, we can show other racist problems. So we'll take the onus of that decision. was bad. |
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Robert Lipsyte
Can I just stop you for a minute? Hold your thought? Because that's fascinating, because so much we've read in the paper is what are black people going to do? If their Bensonhurst, you know, alleged killers are acquitted? What are people in Bensonhurst going to do? In any way? I mean, how do they feel about this? Alvin (NYC Voter) Just like I said, a program once before. People, my neighborhood really feel that these are just a bunch of dumb kids, and has nothing to do with our neighbor. They did something stupid. Just like the black teenagers and Caden Avenue. Exactly the same with me that we found a bunch of dumb kids Saturday night did something stupid, has nothing to do it right. It's not a racist sense that they do stupid things. Unfortunately, some time. Most of the stupid things is black against black and white against white. Sometimes it's the other way just because they do a stupid a white person does something against a black person doesn't make it racist, and vice versa. A lot of stupid things go on why we million people in the city every day something's going to happen. Robert Lipsyte Well, why are we so quick to want to assume that it is racist Arthur (NYC Voter) we're not, the press is. Laura don't I don't think it really matters whether we assume it's racism are not matters whether we stand up and show our outrage and it just yesterday and one of the papers was a story in Paris. 200,000 people marched because the gravestones of certain deceased Jews were painted and destroyed. People were that outraged to go out into the streets, 200,000 people, and they were of all different religions. They weren't just Jews. Robert Lipsyte Well, I mean, Dr. Doherty, and the people who marched in Bensonhurst were outraged. I mean, you know, that's something that we talked about last night on our show, there were no white people marching with them. Jane Jane (NYC Voter) And the fact is, is that well, well, I honestly believe that Alvin feels angry by what happened, and he's outraged as well. It's clear that they're sad people on stoops that witnessed what happened to Yusef Hawkins. And they failed to come forward at a time that was necessary. In my opinion, the blood of this whole matter really should rest on the moral integrity or the failure to have moral integrity of those people who fail to come forward. The people that came forward in that in that case, Gina Feliciano, a drug addict, an ex drug addict. Frankie ties, someone who's mentally quote unquote unfit and to jailhouse inmates who Oh, who overheard something supposedly, they were law abiding citizen Jane (NYC Voter) Do I hear collective guilt for Bensonhurst. Jane (NYC Voter) I know, I'm not saying that because of the fact that I know Alvin personally and I know other people that live in Bensonhurst, who are outraged by this incident who actually feel that what happened was wrong. And also feel that what happened was wrong for the people that witness it. I mean, I've talked to someone who said, you know, the thing I feel bad about is the fact that there were people that witnesses that did not come forward, and that makes us look bad as a community. But I mean, you cannot force people to come forward, Frank Barbaro, he could have knocked on the doors with community leaders of that particular block and say, Hey, listen, the whole community, you know, people coming down in this community, and it's not the community. I mean, but |
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Laura
it is it is the community. It's a collective responsibility. It's also something that one must examine within oneself. Regardless of whether you were involved or not, I grew, the issue comes up, you immediately ask yourself, Am I racist to I grow? No, I'm not one. Oh, let's ask the question and look deeper. I think it has to start within one. Robert Lipsyte Do you have to do something to be not a racist? Yes, Eric yes, in looking at democratic society, minority groups are always going to be in a worse position. That's the definition of majority rule, unless there is coalition building and the institutions designed to protect minorities, like the courts get the strength and support of the community. And so I entirely agree that unless people come forward and unless people help and unless efforts are made to involve whites and marches and unless there is some coalition politics, we're all going to go down together. Robert Lipsyte Let's talk about coming forward yesterday, on Erasmus Hall high school teacher took his class three blocks, and walk them in to a Korean own grocery store that had been being boycotted for four months by the community. Derek, do you think that that's standing up? Why would you What was your feeling about that? Derek I have mixed feelings about that. I think there have been at least four or five major mistakes made on the parts of a lot of parties, media, people in Brooklyn on both sides of the line, picket line and with regards to Erasmus Hall action by this teacher in some regards, I applaud him. I think on the other hand that I'm a little more reserved about my, my applause for him because he's responded in a way based on race, which is which is also racist. In other words, if in fact, a certain shop has has a habit of being rude to people, then you can pick you can leave, you can boycott them, you don't have to pick at them, you can boycott them, and leave it at that. I'm not sure what the facts are in the case. I think he's showing up to take kids in just to show black people is is I applaud him somewhat, but I think that that's also racist. Robert Lipsyte Lucius, do you have any feeling about Lucius I want to go back to one thing that was done on nightline last night? I refuse to believe that David Dinkins use that as for political gains, and I would be suspect of anything else Al Sharpton would say about David Dinkins. And I sincerely believe that he went there if he had not gone running for the Office of Mayor people to say Well, where's David Dinkins? Or Ed Koch or whatever, this one would have been there. And I don't think that was a fair assessment of I do not believe I I am very reluctant to believe that he used that as a political games as far as this man taking those kids to the eye. This was a good gesture he's trying to show hopefully that other people would go away and do the same thing Robert Lipsyte before you go to much more look this is just hold it right there. It was the frontline program not nightline, I'm sorry, I we know you don't watch different programs, but we're on a different set. So you you think that maybe we got the wrong information here that Sharpton was exploiting his media moment. Lucius I think Sharpton is very disturbed because I think one of the things that he thought he thought that David Dinkins was gonna you know, well, come on, if if David Dinkins had said to Al Sharpton, I want to have a personal point with you and we're going to discuss this thing, he would be very happy but he would only be happy if there were TV cameras are there the Al Sharpton is will be very happy. If he is given credibility by the movement, the cameras and the news media. Take the news me the cameras and things away from Al Sharpton and he would be nothing. Robert Lipsyte So that may have been revisionist history. David, David The thing that stuck out in my mind about last night's documentary was that after all, everything was said and done. They went back to Moses Stweart, Yusef Hawkins father and ask them Has he ever received any contact? Any of the politicians either Cuomo Koch, Jesse Jackson and David Dinkins and he said no. And that's what disturbed me the most about that yesterday. So that said to me, that it was done for political reasons. I mean, he he's said it clearly. There's no way in the world. If it wasn't political motives, they would have contact tied to something after the fact. |
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Robert Lipsyte
Did you have any feeling about the teacher marching into the grocery store David The only reservations I have about that is that he brought kids with him. Even if they did volunteer, it still is not his job. He didn't call the parents first true. Your father, whatever it is that you get the permission first. Yeah. I mean, that's, Derek I think, you know, no one I don't think voted for Dinkins Because he was going to be the great healer. He was just going to be the greater healer of the two people who were seriously being considered. So putting him out as being the person who had to be, you know, to walk walk on water, I think is unfair. And as you said, Is it too unrealistic? Yes, it was unrealistic. One of the things that I wanted to do was, I think, for the most part, that the media has played, I think, a big part in this, I think that it's in many ways a field day for them. And I feel sorry about that. Because I think there should be more responsibility to being a journalist and having a dictionary and a microphone. Robert Lipsyte How can we get past that? Derek What I like to do is I'll show you how there are quite a few things. I went down to the mayor's office, and I got all of his press releases. And I read through them. And I saw a 14 programs or initiatives He instituted as a consequence of all this, none of which I was overwhelmed with when I read any paper. I mean, the issue is does he have to go out now and take out ads the way Salomon Brothers or Morgan Stanley does to get their point across? I'm I feel very underserved by the media. I think that too often I can see the paper the front page and see, you know, named people that we've just mentioned, who were sitting there with a microphone, but we don't see the fact I looked at the releases. And I saw, you know, three initiatives with regards law enforcement to with regard to economic development, five of the guards of social interaction, one educationally and three personal initiatives yet do we ever hear about that? As far as I'm concerned, you have to read the fine print. So I think the media for the most part, has really done a fairly poor job of being real responsible and done a fantastic job of giving the microphone to people who certainly shouldn't have it. One of the things I think is really a problem is the fact that look in your family if you have a major family dispute between brother and sister, do you sit down at a table argue about it the same night? What do you let temper school a little bit less? Robert Lipsyte Derek, this is very important. And let's explore this for a moment. Now. Do you think that people who read the papers, read them as soap operas and say, hey, it's not true, but it's kind of fun or are they their opinions and their fears really being formed and created by what they're reading. What do you think Arthur? Arthur (NYC Voter) Well, I think quite clearly the press is playing to sensationalism and I agree with Derek, they have to be faulted on that score. But I think there's another dimension of this whole business that we haven't yet quite focused on. And that is the responsibility of the politicians and the leadership both at the mayoralty and at the community levels. I'm troubled, for instance, and I think this came out in the documentary that the community level leaders on both sides were playing only to their own crowds. They weren't working towards multi racial solutions to the problems. And I i fault, Mr. Dinkins, to the extent that as a catalyst, he can't somehow raise them above this. And to bring them closer to a collaboration and a consensus that can focus on where do we go from here? What are the actions that need to be taken to start to bring some real change in the community? So I think that's what is really critical. And I think we ought to focus a bit more on what Robert Lipsyte Derek is shaking his head. |
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Derek
The problem with that is we don't know he's not doing that. I mean, you look at some of the things he's set up in terms of, you know, I think, as law enforcement policies with regards to a state bias related violence bill, a federal program to get more data and group violence laws, he's talked about a Strikeforce with the Human Rights Commission, a number of things that you will never get press on, because they're closed door kinds of things. I think that what do you might be faulted for is maybe not taking out a few well placed ads in New York Times, telling people what he's done. Because I think that you know, if all you want to see is how many times he goes into a person's door, how many times he gets on the front steps of City Hall and sells what he's done. Arthur (NYC Voter) This is right, Derek, but we I think we have to go beyond the political dimensions of this enforcement. And we start we need to start looking at the root causes of the problems in these communities. And I think Mr. Dinkins has to also speak out more on those aspects Robert Lipsyte well. The root causes may be economic and they may be beyond David Dinkins. I don't think Washington I don't think Arthur (NYC Voter) No, no, no. If we wait for george bush to come through with funds, we will never have satisfaction Robert Lipsyte Alvin Alvin (NYC Voter) The City is 8 million people earning a living think it's can change the structure the city is 2 million people take the subway every day to the center to work it's grating on people is nothing Dinkins could do with a million programs to make that really more comfortable. We got a city on the Upper East Side where the richest people in the world live and close by the poorest section practically in America is nothing Mayor Dinkins could do about that. You could we could make all the programs Derek mentioned ever you could think of a million things there's nothing the mayor could do. It struck now he's got to run a city he's doing very he's his conditions are running a city very successfully, very properly. And in the end, he has this barrage for the press with the exaggerated race. 8 million people earning a living in a city very you think it's working? Of course it's working. I'm earning a living, you're earning a living here. We're going to go home tonight Laura If there is no racism, then why is it that we continually find people from lower economic groups monopolizing our jails? Why are they getting stiffer sentences then people who have ruptured the city? Yeah. Well could do if it's a structure suit, one thing that he could do is to give to voice some of these things and give a an insight into what's really going on. Rather than not saying this or smoothing over it Robert Lipsyte Let me let me ask you this. And I that's a very good point. But if, as Derek points out, he can't get his programs into the press. How is he going to without taking those Ads? How is he going to Laura That's just the problem when you have laws that are not enforced, or laws that undermine a sense of well being as human beings, then that does breed for a kind of racism and sense of hopelessness and helpless Eric is shaking his head. No self worth. And that's, that's what breeds these. Robert Lipsyte Why are you shaking your head at Laura? |
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Eric
Because because there's joint failure on the part of the press and David Dinkins. In part, the press is incredibly lazy. And somebody who thrusts themselves forward, will get attention. Anything that actually requires work, digging investigation, all the great stuff that led the journalists to go into their business is too much work and they won't do it. On the other hand, David Dinkins when he called down the press and walks into the restroom the way Mayor Koch did eight times a day, could get in through the papers, those things that he chooses to emphasize. And there's no question that in recent times, he's chosen to emphasize nice sounding platitudes, rather than any of these specific initiatives. Robert Lipsyte You think that's right, Jane. Jane (NYC Voter) Well, I think that, for example, during this speech, which I'm sure all of you watched, at eight o'clock, my phone was busy, did not stop until maybe one o'clock that that morning, the next day Saturday morning, because a lot of people a lot of blacks that spoke to me, even I was outraged when David Dinkins classify the situation with the boycott as being racial. The facts were that it did not start off as a racial incident. Many people will agree that that even in your communities where there are stores that the most successful stores are those stores that work with the community. Yeah, the the the Methodist minister that was Asian that David Dinkins appointed as a as a factfinder in this situation admitted on another program, that there are problems with some people who come from another country in terms of understanding the cultural evil respecting. The fact is, is that African Americans are given bad press all across this world. And many people come into this country, looking at African Americans as being at the lowest echelon of this society. I mean, I face that not just from someone who may happen to be Korean. This happened to be a store two stores that had a history over eight years of disrespect in the community. That happened in my community, but it wasn't Arab store. And what happened is that the people picketed. And then maybe after four weeks, the guy came out and said, what is it that I can do and he began to hire some neighborhood kids and that that store is still thriving. There's an Italian store in my parents neighborhood. It's still thriving right now. Also, Howard Beach and Bensonhurst. No one has ever said anything vile, to the owners of this store, they have a thing where they work with senior citizens and so forth. So it's not unrealistic to expect for stores within a community to to to work with the community when David Dinkins said it was a racial thing. What happened was the next day, the people that marched in Flatbush, in addition to those that marched in Bensonhurst was more than the people that March the weeks before and why? because black folks said wait a minute here if he's gonna call it a racial issue, we're gonna let him know by numbers that were outraged by that Robert Lipsyte Jane, we're gonna have to roll up our electronic sidewalk right now. Eric, Derek, Alvin, Jane, Laura, Lucius, David and Arthur, thanks so very much to be with us. The Roper roundtable has been talking about race, a story that we're going to have to understand before we can get past that's the 11th hour. I'm Robert Lipsyte. |
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Lipsyte announces end of Round Tables discussion - he thanks everyone. He announces the topic of race they discussed tonight, announces the show and introduces himself. show end
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Pan out from studio, wide shot of Lipsyte and Roundtable guests.
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Show credits over program graphics.
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funding by announcer, Charitabke orgs overlay The Eleventh Hour graphic.
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End reel.
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