19901980s NEWS
Jazz musician/ musical forms/ career
Original Broadcast Date: 1-5-90
Original Broadcast Date: 1-5-90
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| 01:02:08 128.39 |
Robert Lipsyte
Max Roach extending the boundaries of jazz. That's our story tonight. |
| 01:02:14 134.66 |
Announcer
Funding for the 11th hour is made possible by grants from the Robert Wood Johnson Jr Charitable Trust, the Commonwealth Fund, the Carl C. Icahn Foundation, the Geraldine R. Dodge Foundation, the Jacob Burns Foundation, and the Members of Thirteen. |
| 01:02:53 174 |
Robert Lipsyte
If Max Roach had merely revolutionized drum playing, of course, we'd still be listening. But that was only the beginning. Welcome to the 11th Hour. I'm Robert Lipsyte. In the '40s, he was playing with Dizzy Gillespie and Charlie Parker. By the '50s, he was composing large scale works of jazz using choruses and mass percussion. In the '60s, he was writing political music out of the black spiritual tradition. For the last 20 years collaborating with Alvin Ailey, Sam Shepard, the Boston Pops, and Fab Five Freddy on a rap opera. He has been enlarging the definition of jazz. We'll talk about all that. But first, the drums. |
| 01:05:47 347.4 |
Robert Lipsyte
That was Billy the Kid. Thanks, Max. Max Roach You're welcome. Robert Lipsyte Why? Why drums? I mean, it wasn't your first instrument. What was there about the drums that got you excited? Max Roach Well, that's that's a story that came that when I was very young, my brother who was two years older than myself. We both went to school and selected instruments to select instruments. He selected a trumpet. And so I followed him. I brought the horn home, I couldn't get a sound out of it. My mom said, Why don't you get something that you can deal with? And hence the drums. Robert Lipsyte You really dealt with them? But you've dealt with them in ways that other people? Don't you sound different to me from other drummers, what do you do that's different? Max Roach Well, I'll tell you what I do. I try to do I establish thematic material and and then elaborate on it, so to speak. As in Billy the Kid, we just heard the theme was set by the bass drum |
| 01:06:50 410.66 |
Robert Lipsyte
Here, it'll be example, for example, you know, traditionally in a rock band or whatever, the guy keeps the beat. And then somewhere in the course of the concert, they stopped for a couple of minutes to let him do something athletic. And then the beat goes on. Now, what do you do? That would be different? Show us a theme, for example, Max Roach Well, one of the things I have done is taking say is taken themes written by some of the other well known musicians, for example, I've taken the theme of Coleman Hawkins, a piece written by Coleman Hawkins that was recorded by Louis Armstrong. And the title of the piece is Mob Mob, and it lent itself to a drum set. Now sing it for you first, and then I'll play it and you'll get some ideas what it sounds like, well, the song Coleman Hawkins a song with Delia that that deleted that deleted that that Mob Mob, now the drums would imitate that. And so I and so most musicians began to say, well, we could hear the melody, but actually, you can hear the the pattern of the melody. Robert Lipsyte And so it's more like making the drums talk, in a sense, yes, yes. Now can can drums as so many other instruments seem to be able to make emotions? I mean, can you feel things with a drum? |
| 01:08:29 509.45 |
Max Roach
Well, for example, at the at the Alvin Ailey services funeral services in St. John Devine they asked me to play a piece for the processional. And I played a piece that was solemn. As, as the as the people walked into the church and into the name, et cetera, but and then you know, there are other things that we do but basically that is, I guess, would be a solemn type thing. And then if I wanted to place up in wild and emotional Of course, that's a different thing altogether. Robert Lipsyte Oh, the wild animal. Traditionally, the drum has been emotional. It's called us into battle and sent messages. It's the basic instrument, isn't it? Max Roach As the heartbeat Yes, yes. And in the music contemporary music today, of course, rhythm is the most dominant factor. And the drum of course is the instrument that provides that heartbeat or, or what have what is going on, especially in today's music. |
| 01:10:17 617.58 |
Robert Lipsyte
And you're still taking the drum in in new ways. Max has been collaborating with several artists. And here's an excerpt from a live performance at La MaMa. The video artists was Kitt Fitzgerald call this video jazz. Robert Lipsyte That was fresh and exciting. The word jazz has always kind of bothered me because some of what I hear that's cool jazz I find you know, accessible and wonderful music. And some of it seems to be pseudo intellectual path that other people say you don't understand. What is jazz? |
| 01:12:51 771.7 |
Max Roach
Well, you're right. It's it doesn't really explain say who or what? Who this music, who really performed the so called, if you will classical American music instrumentally speaking or what the music is actually. And I try to define it this way, especially with students. That jazz to me is an instrumental music. Not particularly a vocal music. I believe it has to be played by instrumentalists written by instrumentalists. And I've been, of course, this is people argue with me about this. But and specifically, I would say performed by people like the Coleman Hawkins is Duke Ellington's, the day Rubix these kinds of musicians, whereas the other would be popular music and I wouldn't call it jazz either. I usually refer to it as the music of Duke Ellington, the music of Louis Armstrong, the music of Coleman Hawkins, the music of Charlie Paw. |
| 01:14:01 841.09 |
Robert Lipsyte
It's American music, it's a music course. It comes out of a traditional specific tradition. Is there a sound is there is a some kind of sound that tells me that this is what you call jazz. We'll see. I really would you give it another name. Max Roach I was able to give it this name, I would say it's the music of Charlie Parker. Music of Dizzy Gillespie. It's the music of Duke Ellington is to music of Stan Qin is to music of these people that are the ones who created the kind of instrumental music that I think, from a musical point of view, intellectually explain something about our creativity here in America that's comparable to some of the best music ever created. In the 20th century, I think one of the outstanding features of this music Is improvisation and, and the improvisation of people like say the Charlie Parker's and the Dizzy Gillespie is something that the whole world reckons with and appreciates, especially the musicologist. So when we look at American music from that point of view that's instrumental music to me now we have other musics in America. We have folk we have country, we have blues, and we have gospel and as you just pointed out, sometimes it's all lumped together. If you're black, you're playing jazz. That's not necessarily so there are some black folks who sing and they're singers. Mahalia Jackson is a great singer. Jesse Norman is a great singer. If you if you understand what, |
| 01:15:52 952.4 |
Robert Lipsyte
I think you've helped me, but maybe not as much, but we do know that jazz is certainly in in your hands. It's changing and it's progressing and there is a future and part of the future is with your daughter. Max's daughter. Maxine is a member of the Uptown String Quartet. Eileen M fallston on the cello, Diane Monroe and Lisa Terry on the violins Maxine Roach who plays the viola arranged this piece extensions written by Max Roach. |
| 01:19:42 1182.79 |
Robert Lipsyte
Maxine Roach is with us now welcome that piece that we just heard. Extensions is on a new LP Max Roach introduces the Uptown String Quartet and the Uptown String Quartet as I understand and Max and video jazz will be in a three day festival later this month at the 92nd Street Y. Now the piece extensions was an extension of Billy the Kid, the piece that Max played for us at the top of the show. What was it? Max? Could you show us? What was it that Maxine extended? What was the basic theme Max Roach she took the bass drum and gave that part to her cello and the snare drum and the rest of the traps as he spread it around between the violins and herself, the violas for example, this and that that was the attitude with course, she embellished on it and gave different parts of the, of the chipset to the extreme quartet, I thought it was an ingenious way of dealing with the drums. Robert Lipsyte So what made you think of that? Maxine Roach Well, I wanted to do something different for the string quartet. We were all very classically trained, and playing with this particular string quartet. It's very demanding and very original. And my father's compositions and his and his, his lucid lucidity when he performs, lent itself I think, to the string quartet, and I said, Gee, would be a nice tribute to do this because everyone does Duke Ellington composition or Felonious Monk composition, and I wanted to do a piece by drummer. For the string quartet. |
| 01:21:32 1292.95 |
Robert Lipsyte
What fascinates me is the idea that it not only it see the joining of the two generations, but the joining of two things that some people would think are antithetical, musically jazz, and classical, or would you make a western music, right? Maxine Roach Yes, I think the string quartet in this particular piece is a combination of many years of playing with the Maxforce double quartet and coming out of that organization and, and having his Quartet the members of his Quartet coach us and guide us and, and the approach to black classical music. Robert Lipsyte You calling jazz, black classical music. Maxine Roach Well, I like to call it that. I like to call it America's music. Robert Lipsyte What were your inspirations growing up? I mean, what do you musically? Maxine Roach Oh, my father, I have many fond memories as a little child of him performing and cannonball adult living at the house and dizzy. And knowing these were real people and fun people to be around. |
| 01:22:41 1361.04 |
Robert Lipsyte
And yet she became a classical western classical musician first why? Max Roach Well, you know, when he's when you're when your youngster shows natural inclination toward anything at all music, especially, you know, you he could play drums, she could play piano, or she could play guitar just by ear. So when she was seven, eight years old, so we just pushed her into the conservatories and things like that. The thing about it was she took it very seriously, of course. And all the end, she was an F she was born in an improvisational person. But when she finished Oberlin, she came out I would go to see her occasionally, and I'd say, play something for me. And she'd get music, of course, and she played Bartok. Viola concerto very difficult pieces. And I turned the music over and say, Can you play anything by and she said, Oh, dad. But she came back after school, went to Europe, came back home. And so we got together. Well, what brought you together? Maxine Roach Well, I graduated from college, I realized that I was a viola player, and I wasn't a musician. And I didn't learn how to be a musician in college. And I came out thinking that if I auditioned for an orchestra, the only thing I really had to know was the viola parts. And it didn't make me feel good. So we got together, and we talked about forming a group, |
| 01:24:09 1449.83 |
Robert Lipsyte
Then you got to tell us what a musician is. Maxine Roach What musician is is a performer who knows how to compose and arrange and perform a viola player. You can just read music actually, and and interpret it and that's, that's fine for certain situations. Robert Lipsyte Well, Max has also extended music in the sense that you've used your music as a kind of political as the drum beat a political message for you didn't it? Particularly during the '60s? I mean, how do you want- what do you want to say with your music? Max Roach Well, I'm confident I'm restless, really, and I like to do and that comes out of just being in this business. You know, Bob, when you go to a recording executive in our person, the first thing they say to you say, well, Max, you know, you did things with Charlie Parker did things to Disney, but Clifford Brown and all these wonderful folks, what have you gotten new? So you're obliged to search and search and search, you know, it's like writing the same, but you cannot write the same book over and over again. So I'm constantly doing this looking for that I'm still looking for ideas, to do certain things just to stay alive in the business. You can't and I guess that's really part of it, but you just become you just become restless and try you look |
| 01:25:31 1531.85 |
Robert Lipsyte
Restless, it seems to have led you into working on a rap opera. What does rap have to do with what you do? Max Roach You know, you've strange it's funny, you ask that, you know, we dealt with this some time ago. But rap is is counseling the same place that Louis Armstrong came from? It's the Louis Armstrong wasn't conservatories. He hadn't gone to a music school or conservatory just came from the streets, so to speak, people and he created a music I helped created music that has become now we spoke it all over the world and thing of beauty and something that America is really proud of this American music and of course, it extends all the way to us today. And rap is the same thing. It just like just came out of the ashes from a group of young people who, who will go into schools in inner cities where they had no cultural programs, and no rhetoric, no music courses, no instruments in the schools. And consequently, what they did was they had the inclination to do something. Hope they so their poetry is rhyme and their stories deal with political things and and their music is scratching and whatever they could put together and become now one of the big things of course, and the recording industry is like they're selling platinum but not only that, if this is something to see just something happened like that. And I equate it with Louie Armstrong and folks like this, you share that |
| 01:26:56 1617 |
Robert Lipsyte
You share that with him and then you've come together in rap. Max Roach And now we've had the classical String Quartet so who knows we may get classical String Quartet and Fab Five Freddy together. Robert Lipsyte Jazz does go on. Maxine Roach, Max Roach thanks very much for being with us. And Max Roach is going to take us off the program and into the future of jazz. That's the 11th Hour. I'm Robert Lipsyte. Announcer Funding for the 11th hour is made possible by grants from the Robert Wood Johnson Jr Charitable Trust, the Commonwealth Fund, the Carl C. Icahn Foundation, the Geraldine R. Dodge Foundation, the Jacob Burns Foundation and the Members of Thirteen. |
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