TITLE CARD - CHESS
ROBERT LIPSYTE INTRODUCES GUEST: GARRY KASPAROV - CHESS CHAMPTION*\
Robert Lipsyte 1:49
The Brain wars of chess he mostly to have been fought by European manic depressives, American hermits and Soviet pawns, making it a hard game to sell to Wide World of Sports. But now there's a superstar, the Napoleon of chess young, good looking outgoing, sensual, opinionated, a Soviet citizen with a common market mind. He's the world champion, Garry Kasparov. And we'll talk to him tonight. Funding for the 11th hour is made possible by grants from the Commonwealth Fund, the Coral Sea icon Foundation, the Geraldine R dodge Foundation,
Robert Lipsyte 2:51
Welcome to the 11th hour I'm Robert Lipsyte. Two gold plated outlaws have been playing in New York this week. One is Mick Jagger, a middle aged man pumping the adolescent fantasy of rock'n'roll for a few more millions. The other who is here is Garry Kasparov, a young man who is moving one of the world's oldest games chess into that glittery world was sport and entertainment and international business meet to make Megabox Gary is the world champion. Welcome. Do you think this is too wild a conceit comparing you to Mick Jagger.
Garry Kasparov 3:27
It's up to you.
Robert Lipsyte 3:28
Thank you. Do you do you think that chess will ever capture some aspect of the public mind in the way rock and roll has?
Garry Kasparov 3:36
No I don't think so just is very narrow sport. But anyway, it's it's very good to mental exercise. And it will help you to concentrate and to use your ability to open your abilities and they I hope chess has very good future, even in TV and a special program. And I'm sure we'll be able to provide kind of a special package for the audience and to catch it
Robert Lipsyte 3:59
for what about you? I mean, as the Mick Jagger of chess going out there into kind of frontiers where no chess master has ever gone.
Garry Kasparov 4:08
Yes somebody has to start you know, if you have this kind of product and unsellable product right now and valuable product, right. You need somebody who someone who can improve the image I mean, who can catch the public with some outstanding performance or some outs to outspoken statements and, and then the interest will raise and you can provide the program special professional program behind the person. And I hope I can play this role as a world champion and as a personality
Robert Lipsyte 4:35
as a sexy personality.
Garry Kasparov 4:37
As a personality. Okay, it's just
Robert Lipsyte 4:39
wow, a chess champion, like a rockstar emerges from millions of people playing the tradition that nurtured Garry Kasparov is still alive in New York, one of the great capitals of chess. The game's image here always embodied mainstream privilege and brainy gentil The even now, those century old clubs the martial and the Manhattan demand decorum, even as their members play their bloodless version of war, bloodless, but not without casualties. Perhaps the greatest player of all time a New Yorker Bobby Fischer became the world champion in 1972 and walked away from the board in 1973. Fisher played here in Washington Square Park, that outdoor arena for that other tradition that nurtures the great champions, the tradition of the chess player as performer, hustler and psychoanalyst around the corner. That tradition also thrives in the only chess parlor remaining in the city.
STILL OLD PHOTOS OF VINTAGE CHESS PLAYERS.
MAN AND WOMAN PLAYING CHESS IN MANHATTAN CHESS CLUB
VARIOUS STILL SHOTS OF BOBBY FISCHER
CHESS PLAYERS IN WASHINGTON SQUARE PARK IN NYC
INTERIOR SHOTS OF OLDEST CHESS PARLOR IN NYC
INTERVIEW WITH NYC CHESS PLAYER
NYC CHESS HUSTLER ON SIDEWALK CHALLENGERS PEDESTRIANS TO A GAME OF CHESS.
PEDESTRIANS WALK BY CHESS HUSTLER IN NYC. 1980'S DRESS
STUDIO INTERVIEW CONTINUES:
Robert Lipsyte 8:47
Garry Kasparov, do you think that there's some sort of psychic thread in the makeup of a chess player, whether it's Johnny Seville and Moe Pink, or You
Garry Kasparov 8:58
No I think they express very well in the the idea of chess, you know, that's this kind of struggle and it's strategical struggle at battle. And this is a fight you know, it's pure fight between two egos and you have to destroy your your your opponent and it's that's it, it could give him great satisfaction that he did it, as we saw right now. But
Robert Lipsyte 9:19
does it give you great satisfaction?
Garry Kasparov 9:20
Yes, I have to not have to play. I have to win.
Robert Lipsyte 9:23
Well, but you talk about a struggle and ego and destruction is I mean, it doesn't sound any more like some sort of rational logical game. It sounds like
Garry Kasparov 9:32
it exists. I mean, it's chess is kind of you need imagination. You need logic in it fantasy, your calculation. I mean, you have to keep this great tension, but it's a fight you know, the final result is to beat your opponent and it's I think it's the best possible victory I mean, to to destroy his ego to destroy his. His mental power. I mean, you if you win chess game, you just better be then then then your opponent,
Robert Lipsyte 10:01
you're a better person.
Garry Kasparov 10:02
Your better this person and everything you better. And if you lose, you should feel miserable. Because you've lost your worst.
Robert Lipsyte 10:11
But when you're sitting there playing a game, aren't you thinking, you know, 50 moves ahead? Or are you thinking about destroying this person?
Garry Kasparov 10:17
No, that's that's that's my target. I mean, to to win the game and to destroy his ego, but I have to do it. I mean, I have to pray to provide a strategy, I have to find the best move and the position I have to create the plan, special strategic plan over if, if it's complicated position, I have to calculate many moves ahead. It's, you know, it's a tactical, tactical ideas, but the strategical ones just to beat your opponent.
Robert Lipsyte 10:40
But there's always been traditionally such a streak of madness in chess players, do you think that it's because of the game?
Garry Kasparov 10:46
I think I don't look like a man.
Robert Lipsyte 10:49
You're only 26. Gary, you've got time. But in terms of why do some of them seem? Is it is it the demands of game
Garry Kasparov 10:59
Yes, it's the problem that if you if you're concentrated very much in chess you can, you can lose your connection with with the rest of the world. And you can beat any other point like Fisher D, but you can lose the final battle against chess? Because just you can be conquered by the game.
Robert Lipsyte 11:13
Was he conquered by the game
Garry Kasparov 11:14
I think so.
Robert Lipsyte 11:15
In what way?
Garry Kasparov 11:17
I mean, he's so that he found the perfection. I mean, he was afraid to start again, you know, he was afraid to make any single mistake. And it was his strategy, because he, he left chess and chess. It was put, it was probably the great loss in his history.
Robert Lipsyte 11:35
Yeah, but I mean, what what difference is there? I mean, you've reached that level of perfection. You're the world champion, you're considered the greatest player in the world.
Garry Kasparov 11:42
Yeah, absolutely. But I'm not afraid to take any new challenge. You know, I'm okay. I can make mistake. But it's i I can't, I can't necessarily, I'm afraid. But I believe that I will win, for sure. And I need new challenges. That's why playing against the computer. I'm taking any new challenge in the world. And I want to continue, it's important for me to beat my opponents. And I saw this example. I mean, a very sad example of Fischer is
Robert Lipsyte 12:06
Let's talk about you beeting out the computer. you, you've beaten the computer. And we have a little bit of tape of the great event last Sunday, the last time you went up against the machine.
Robert Lipsyte 12:26
It was a hot ticket in the chess world. This was the latest electronic challenge to the human champ. Kasparov has the highest rating of any player ever. And his opponent has beaten every other computer. It can analyze 700,000 moves per second. Kasparov whipped the machine. But which of them is the future of the game?
VIDEO OF GARRY KASPAROV IN A COMPETITION WITH A COMPUTER AND BEATS IT.
STUDIO INTERVIEW CONTINUES:
Robert Lipsyte 14:00
Do you think you'll ever make a machine to beat you,
Garry Kasparov 14:02
I don't believe that computer will beat human being it's, I admit, it's very rapid progress. Now, the computer today play stronger than a year ago, and nobody could believe this level in this level five years ago. But if you go up, up and up, computers climbing to the top, probably you'll get you'll get the limit. They promise now to create the new super powerful computer, which will make will calculate a billion moves a second most a second.
Robert Lipsyte 14:36
But but the computer has an advantage in that it doesn't have an ego to be destroyed.
Garry Kasparov 14:41
Yes I understand. I understand. But chess is don't forget about creativity in chess. And you have a very powerful computer 1 billion moves a second, just imagine it and it's you you are able to hone knowledge of chess and as a computer, but I'm a human being or somebody else somebody else in the future and we can provide a new strategy how to finding his computer because as any chess player computer will have some consequences and it's a question of our our creativity how to, to provide a special strategy to use these consequences.
Robert Lipsyte 15:14
Do you think of yourself as an artist?
Garry Kasparov 15:16
Partly yes, if it's necessary I can I can find a very nice way to to beat my opponent. I mean, using chess pieces. It's I can't forget about the the major task of the game to be to beat your opponent. But sometimes you have to show your artistic abilities.
Robert Lipsyte 15:32
One of the things that's always intrigued me about your successes is the way you also beat what always has seemed to be an oppressive sports system, the Soviet sports system, how you kind of crack through?
Garry Kasparov 15:44
Oh, yeah, it wasn't so easy as it's probably it was much more difficult to be computer. On last Sunday, I, I was, I was in trouble for several years because they didn't want me to be the symbol of the system. And my predecessor, world champion and Mexico champion, and Anatoly Karpov was a symbol of the system for for many years. And they wanted to prevent him to lose against me. And that's why I had to prove my abilities not only at the chess board, but around his board as well. Do went through this chess politics, just all trials and obstacles, finally I succeeded. And I right now, I think that I was very lucky to have these troubles, because it helped me to create my my fighting character. I'm not I'm not afraid of any any troubles in the future. Probably. That's why I didn't repeat Fisher's way, I'm not afraid of the challenge.
Robert Lipsyte 16:33
But in winning you also seem somewhat antithetical to the professed system, Rolex watches, swanky clothes. Why do you remain a Soviet citizen?
Garry Kasparov 16:43
yet? I think it's kind of misunderstanding because it's, I do not believe that this this image of Soviets will will remain forever, you know, it should be changed, because I hope that my country will be brought into into normal society. I mean, I think that somebody has, someone has to start to talk about this possible changes. And many people talk about it. Yeah, well, this changes no country now. But I'm probably probably the only person who was able to get a wide audience in the West. And it's much more difficult even for for leaders of the Soviet radicals. Because they're not not well known, probably, except sacro, from the west. And I feel that I'm in the position to talk on behalf of many, many, many Soviets
Robert Lipsyte 17:21
Do you see yourself as an instrument of change,
Garry Kasparov 17:25
not an instrument of change, I, I want I think I am in the position to represent this changes. And I, I can talk, I can talk about this change, I can explain it all the better decisions in my country. And having me as a symbol of of these changes, you can understand our potential future. It's, it's not clear. It's a long, long way. And this will have many, many problems. Because we we have to change so many things in the country. But I, I don't want to leave the country because it's if people like as part of this, they can't leave the country. Just take my example. What can you take from the average citizen, I mean, they they will be very disappointed, because Kasparov is one of the few persons who is able to talk in the West who is in the position with more or less safe, but the average person is helpless and facing the system. That's why I shouldn't even give them that example. Probably my main task is just to persuade them to talk to to bring millions of people into the changes.
Robert Lipsyte 18:25
Of course, part of it is is for you to progress and for chess to progress. Where do you see the game going?
Garry Kasparov 18:30
Game? It's improving? Yes, it's a it was improved within the last 10 years, for sure. But right now, we have to professionalize this game, because it's the amateurs level, it's not enough at all. And now we have this big gap, you know, between a world championship match out this, this kind of event and other other competitions. Just imagine this, this guy in the in the street told us that this is total money involved in chess, that's absolutely true in chess, but the press fund in the net World Championship match will be between two and $3 million. Just one event, you know, it's unbelievable in tennis, you have your your money growing up, but slowly step by step in chess, it's only one event costs money. And I think that we have to find a way how to do absolute professional when probably we have to use team competitions, pro pro team competitions, its professional teams, not national national teams, but just kind of sponsor teams. Plus, we have to create some kind of Academy for the young players, we should give them future we should show them that if they play chess, they can have future and it's a long process, but I think we will succeed and I have enough ability now enough energy to help people in Europe and in America to bring all these components together. And to view this chess world
Robert Lipsyte 19:51
yeah, because every every sport that's ever gotten its television contract or its licensing agreement, has always done it on the basis of merchandise. Stars. Personalities. Oh, yes, this Garry Kasparov and then I can't think of somebody else.
Garry Kasparov 20:04
Unfortunately, right now I'm the only person who is able to do it. Yes. Because of many, many reasons and political and chess reasons. And I repeat that I have to start it. But I sincerely believe in the future. Many players will journey it depends on our success, I will be successful to create the professionalism in chess.
Robert Lipsyte 20:22
But what about creating chess players? Do you think players are made or born?
Garry Kasparov 20:29
Players are made world champions are borm, that's, that's, I believe, it's you must be born as a world champion.
Robert Lipsyte 20:37
What do you have that I don't have? That's, I got I got a you can see, it's feel?
Garry Kasparov 20:44
No, it's probably it's better to compare the players I mean, it's it's strong players and world champions. If you look at the games, it's extremely difficult to explain what's exactly the difference. But it's, it appears in the critical moment of the chest history. Now, it's something you know, it's a gift from the God probably. It's I know many strong players. For example, Kushner, he's very strong player, but he wasn't born a world champion. And he lost against Karpov. And it's, it happened several times. I'm just history, we had very, very strong players, very powerful players. They could win many, many tournaments. But finally, when you win, you have to win this last last last game, you know, to become a world champion. They lost. I mean, it's desolate
Robert Lipsyte 21:23
What part of the body. Does that come from?
Garry Kasparov 21:25
I don't know. It's it's not just from you. It's it's beyond your your imagination. It's sometimes it's a very critical position. I can feel the move. You know, that's that's the right move. It's, it could look absolutely horrible. It's wrong against against any rules. But that's the right move. And I know, it's just just by heart.
Robert Lipsyte 21:45
Do you think this cuts through all racial ethnic national lines this this gift you talk about
Garry Kasparov 21:52
Yes. It comes through the world. Yes, easily.
Robert Lipsyte 21:54
What about a woman chess champion.
Garry Kasparov 21:56
Oh, that's that's difference. There's a big difference, because it's, we agree that chess is fight. It's a real tough fight. And look at the history. I mean, it was our privilege to fight against each other. And to prove our superiority. It's much more difficult for women to keep this terrible tension. As to tension, you know, it's not only one game, which normally lasts five hours, but it's it, it could last for four to three weeks, even two months if in case of a world championship match. And normally, they're not able to keep this tension. I mean, they, they can't concentrate for for a long time. It's I think it's in our nature plus chesses is a very great creative game, and you have to create new ideas, and it fits us more as well.
Robert Lipsyte 22:40
Yeah, I'm sure you're gonna be in fights about that.
Garry Kasparov 22:43
Robert Lipsyte 22:44
All right, if it's not a woman, but is there a kid out there, standing on a street corner like waiting for gunfighter, some 15 1617 year old kid, who's going to get you?
Garry Kasparov 22:44
What I mean, get me
Robert Lipsyte 22:44
get you some kid who's got this kind of divine spark whose frequency read everything you've ever
Garry Kasparov 23:03
1515 1516 Probably a little bit late to for the career of a world champion, you have to sell the 789 he
Robert Lipsyte 23:09
started at seven or 79 and he's read it says
Garry Kasparov 23:13
it's inevitable. It's history. I will be replaced by somebody else. And very quiet about it one day it will happen I will lose my battles. Okay. What's its life is goes on.
Robert Lipsyte 23:22
Are you ready for that now
Garry Kasparov 23:24
No I'm not ready now. But I know that what will happen but now it's extremely difficult. I'm just 26 and was the next five years I think it'll be able to defend my position even against powerful computer.
Robert Lipsyte 23:35
You think of yourself as another five or six years?
Garry Kasparov 23:37
Five, six, at least
Robert Lipsyte 23:38
Yeah. And then and then what will happen you lose interest. God will pluck it away or what will happen?
Garry Kasparov 23:44
Probably not pluck it away, but probably it will be given to somebody else. No, I didn't know perhaps I have 10 years not not five or six but just saw your story one it's a time when you're stuck. You're stuck you start to lose energy, you know, because chess is a game of any very energetic game. You have to spend energy a minute to to spread it around. Around the board, you know, and if you put if you have an opponent, it's kind of energetic dwell in the fight
Robert Lipsyte 24:13
where we'll be watching Gary, whether the next five or six years thanks so very lucky to be here.
TALK BACK SEGMENT (LIPSYTE READS VIEWER LETTERS)
Description: Gary Kasparov/in-studio chess game Original Broadcast Date: 10-27-89
Keywords: Garry Kasparov
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