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Bicycle riders - one three wheel bike has flatbed attached to back and carries an injured or dead body on it.

The Eleventh Hour graphic and show opener.

Host Lipsyte talks about the topic for tonight's program, how free is the press in Chinatown? How did they fool us.

INTERVIEW

Stephen Solarez
at the Polish experience is instructive in terms of what's happening in China today in more ways than one. It is not without significance that at the very same time, that the Chinese authorities chose to crush the democratic aspirations of their people with brutal force that Poland was experiencing the first quasi democratic election since the end of the Second World War. And what seems to me to be particularly significant here is that eight years ago, General Jaruzelski chose to crush solidarnosc by establishing martial law in Poland. He discovered, however, that he could not permanently put the genie of democracy back into the Battle of repression, and that without a willingness on the part of the Polish people to cooperate in the development of the Polish economy, his country was doomed to stagnation. And so we concluded that the only hope for the future of Poland was to open up the political system. What this suggests in terms of the situation in China today is that even if the Chinese authorities are temporarily successful in crushing the student movement, the Chances are that sooner or later, the aspirations for which the students have been willing to sacrifice their lives will ultimately prevail, because without the participation and cooperation of the Chinese people, China simply will not be able to progress. And I believe that the current regime has lost whatever residual legitimacy it may have had in Chinese terms, it has lost the mandate of heaven. And the only way to restore it will be to open up the political system of China to the participation of the people.

Robert Lipsyte
And so ironical the same the same weekend that the the polls were, were voting, Tony, even even a china scholar like us was somewhat startled by what happened to Did you misread signals along the way,

Anthony J Kane
I don't think so I think that what happened was that the early development of these demonstrations were equally surprising in their own way to see the numbers of demonstrators grow from 10,000 to 100,000 to a million was something the Chinese themselves, none of us expected. And I guess that those victories were so large, that the repression somehow in the minds of those leaders had to be equally large. But I agree with Congressman solarez, I think the Chinese Communist Party has destroyed itself with this. Up until now, the Reform Movement has tried to suggest that perhaps the Chinese Communist Party could remould itself and still represent the people after the horrors of the Cultural Revolution. Now you have an equally horrible situation. And the man, the one man who seemed to be saying, there's another way out, has been declared by the party, not a part of the party placed under arrest, expelled from the party, there's no left no room left for a reason in the party, by the admission of their own leaders,

Robert Lipsyte
we get so little, you know, sense of what's happening outside Beijing, would you think anything else is happening in the country? Do you think that there are other forces civil war?

Stephen Solarez 7:02
I think Bob, one of the things we have to recognize is how little we really know or understand about the political dynamics which are taking place in China today. I was there for two weeks in August, I returned again, for a brief period in April, I have no hesitation whatsoever in saying to you that among the dozens of Chinese and American interlocutors with whom I met, there wasn't one among them, who would have ventured the prediction that a million Chinese would be demonstrating for democracy on the streets of Beijing and throughout other major cities in the country, and that the government would then choose to use brutal and unrestrained force in the effort to suppress this movement. Right now, I think it is entirely possible that as we speak, China could be on the brink of civil war. There were some reports earlier today that the 38th army was moving on Beijing, allegedly in order to suppress the 27th army, which had been unleashed 24 hours ago, against the citizens of Beijing, a week ago, after the establishment of martial law. One of the most striking developments was the fact that the Army units in the vicinity of Beijing who were given the responsibility for suppressing the demonstrations refused to use force against the Chinese people. So it would appear that there may well be significant elements within the People's Liberation Army, that do not choose to associate themselves with a discredited political leadership, which doesn't hesitate to use force against their own people, if that were to happen. And if God forbid, a civil war, what a breakout in China, it would not only be a calamity for the Chinese people, but potentially for the entire world. Let me mention something if I might, which I haven't heard anyone speculate about, at least publicly so far. But the fact of the matter is that if a civil war should erupt in China, and I think the chances probably that it won't, but we've reached the point where it can no longer be precluded. And if it should, we have to remember that this would be the first country since the dawn of the nuclear age, in which a civil war breaks out in a nation which has a stockpile of nuclear weapons. And so in a really worst case scenario, which can no longer absolutely be precluded. We could be witnessing developments, which would have catastrophic consequences for China and the world.

Robert Lipsyte
Let me, let me ask you in terms of that, that stereotypical loss of face with We've always heard about what what role did that play in all of this?

Anthony J Kane
Well, I think that early on loss of face was a real consideration. I think that the leadership was afraid to give in to the most radical of the students demands. For instance, early on, they were demanding the resignation of dung XIAO PING and Lee pung. And at that time, it seemed to me that that was going a bit too far that the demands for an independent press and freedom of association were more reasonable and more likely to be granted. I think, once you got into this power struggle, then face was no longer the central question. I think what you have here is an accelerated succession struggle, it was clear that you had a very, you know, old man at the top two of his lieutenants fighting it out, and the fight just got more vicious than any of us imagined it could.

Interview concludes and Host Lipsyte introduces a clip about Press censorship in New York's Chinatown.

hand with scissor cutting newspaper print negative

Row of large newspaper printing machines in print factory

Large printing press rollers in printing factory - newspapers can be seen on assembly line

Newspapers being stacked up at street side newspaper stand

Close up Chinese newspaper page - with large red Chinese lettering running down the side

Chinese man at desk reading newspaper.

Chinese man at work cutting newspaper page negatives (in publishing office).

close up on hand holding a page from a Chinese language newspaper.

Chinese man in white button down shirt grabs a newspaper from newspaper stand on the street, opens paper and begins to read.

INTERVIEW:

Peter Lee:
Every major newspaper in the New York City had reported on him had his picture show. I said why not write his name? Everybody knows who he is. My editor says no.

Woman, Ying Chang, former editor of Center Daily News, walking into building in chinatown.

Former editor, Journalist, Ying Chang, talking with unseen unknown interviewer about being fired from the newspaper - for reporting the facts and the truth.

Interior office , Chinese workers standing talking amongst each other.

Charles Wang, Executive Director Chinese American Planning Council, talking with unseen interviewer from his office disputing Chang's story.

Pan out narrow street in New York's Chinatown, signs in Chinese on all the buildings, except for "CARVEL ICE CREAM"

Older Chinese woman with white hair outside reading newspaper

Bob Lee of the Asian American Art Center on ladder hanging art work in gallery.

INTERVIEW Bob Lee:
A young reporter from the Chinese press came here and cover the story in the Chinese press. She was subsequently harassed and hounded to the point where she lost her or left her job.

Chinese male demonstrator with megaphone standing on platform

Interior printing press, large roller machines, folded printed pages coming off rollers.

INTERVIEW:

Robert Lipsyte:
what happened? The bravery the boldness of the students. It will have any impact on Chinese people here, particularly journalists,

Ying Chan
I think definitely already the impacts showing like Chinese Chinatown papers have different political orientations. They support different governments. But on this issue, the papers I think, had done a terrific job in covering the issue. What happened over and over there extensively?

Robert Lipsyte
Do you think it also emboldens Chinese American journalists here?

Ying Chan
Oh, yeah, definitely. I mean, what has happened at Tiananmen Square is an inspiration not only to journalists, student and actually to people of the whole world, and you have to take inspiration from and learn and also apply to your own work.

Robert Lipsyte
Because you talk, Peter about that there's a different standard of journalism in Chinese language papers here. What is that that standard? is not free press as as we seem to know it here.

Peter Lee
Right. I like I say, the the idea of freedom of the press was really none existing, I think in the Chinese culture. And I think only up to the this part of the century or the latter part of this century, have, you know, the press be play a more important role and also have become more technically superior, meaning that before they don't have the technique to really how to report a story or have never enjoyed the degree of freedom they have now but what we are saying that that is not enough. You really have to go further. You really have to go in to report the truth. About the uprising here in China, or what is going on in Chinese communities across,

Robert Lipsyte
Of course there's that old saw hear that freedom of the press belongs to the person who owns the press. But now you have your own paper, which gives you more latitude. But I guess also you're going to have some more problems, aren't you?

Ying Chan 20:19
Yeah, that definitely, you know, it takes money to put out the paper. And this is true. So the question of freedom of press in China, and China is not just a question of whether one believes in freedom of the press, they are also objective situations. I mean, China is a small town, you know, like a small town community. Everybody knows each other. So there's a lot of feudalism face, respect for the elderly. And spiritual tradition, tradition, tradition. And also because markets limited, right, so there's cutthroat competition for advertising. And so these are the concerns you have to take into account.

Robert Lipsyte
But they're really two things going on at the moment. Not only is it his coverage of that very tightly controlled Chinatown, but it's also the flow of information back and forth to China's we talked before how surprised we were that people here knew more about what was going on in Chinaman square than people were in tenement square. And you guys have been involved in sending information back there to what's happening. How does that work?

Peter Lee
Well, I don't know about you, but I wasn't, you know, I, I wasn't I did not personally send back information. But what we written were the news clippings, they were taken by a students or people who are here who have friends in in Beijing or other parts of China. And they usually, and they actually facts, these news reports of a leader from the Chinese papers from the New York Times on news day, whatever, and actually fax those news articles back to China, to let people know what really is happening. I mean, like this weekend's massacre, if you're, if you listen to the official press, it was just a surperior job by the army in suppressing some counter revolutionaries. But, in fact, it was a massacre of students and people who wants democracy in China. So the people are actually getting these information, not only to Beijing, but in other parts of China so that they know what their government is doing. And so that they can come out in support of them.

Robert Lipsyte
It's an amazing image. When you think about it, the revolution comes to America by satellite. And news of the revolution goes back to the revolutionaries by fax in, let me ask you about about your new paper. Do you have any strong feelings of advocacy, I'm going to break the hold of those people in Chinatown?

Ying Chan
Well, we, of course, we have our concerns as a newspaper and to cover the community as it is not only Chinatown, but also the Korean community, the Japanese American community. I mean, it's a small paper, but you know, I think we have a job to do. And

Robert Lipsyte
that job specifically do you think

Ying Chan 23:07
even for us now even to cover the issues? Is improvement and covered it correctly? investigation background? I mean, do you know what just what you're suppoed to do? Like about Lee's story. It was not, you know, cover in the Chinese press? Or is except us and then we the paper that we used to wearing got into trouble. When the restaurant open. We did not get the advertising. And this young reporter that you know, with all her intuition did the story was got a scolding and got into a lot of pressure.

Robert Lipsyte
Now, the mainstream American press is not covering the Chinatown at all, are they? I mean, we don't really have any

Peter Lee
well they're covering it when there's like a multi death murder or, or gang fight in, in Chinatown. They're covering it. But I I don't know, I think the American press not just with the Asian community, but with any community. And so America at last year only covered news, there are more sensational lies, and to cover the everyday investor events in the Chinese community. It really is not that exciting. And I and I think unless something really major happened, like the uprising right now in China, or if there was really a gang war, or actually there was a catastrophe happened, then the mainstream press will come and cover it and then they do it piecemeal, you know, piecemeal, they would they would they would take information and then maybe twist it a little bit too,

Robert Lipsyte
or as we are doing here will come to you and pick your brain and put you in danger. In a sense. You do have that sense of danger. I mean, you said on the tape well die from me. No, I

INTERVIEW CONTINUED

Peter Lee
I was half jokingly, by the way, but yeah, they I mean, in my immediate threat is I probably will not be working for a major newspaper again in the Chinese community. Because if I come out and say these things, although, I mean, I might be telling the truth. I'm also an instigator, a troublemaker, even even, you know, a publisher, we think twice before hiring me. Because I come in, I might do a good job in reporting news. But I also bring in other problems for them, because

Robert Lipsyte
Would you hire him.

Ying Chan
If I have the means.

Robert Lipsyte
are you going to be concentrating on what's going on in China? Now? I mean, is that going to be the thrust of the new Asian times coverage?

Ying Chan
Um, well, our focus is still on the communities here because we given our resources. And given that there's no newspaper, in English for Asian Americans in your city, or in the East Coast. So I think that's still our priority. And But definitely, we would look at the issue. And we would look at what happens in China, in in terms of how it impacts on the communities here.

Robert Lipsyte
In terms of that impact. Do you think that the students here will try to keep the revolution alive and and how might they do it?

Ying Chan
I think they are trying already, you see that the students are energized, and they begin to organize and doing things that they've never done in the life before in China or here. Going to demonstrations. I mean, asserting the rights and

Robert Lipsyte 26:52
we'll be we're almost out of it. Will it be the role of the Chinese American journalist as advocate to keep that alive?

Peter Lee
I think they will contribute towards that. But I think I think the Chinese students or or Chinese American who are concerned about China and have their demonstrations here, only part of the effort. I mean, the Chinese all over the world in Hong Kong, Taiwan everywhere. If there's a Chinese community, people are standing up for the democracy campaign in China. So I think it's not just here, but in everywhere.

Robert Lipsyte
There's a fax machine. They'll know what's going on. Peter Lee Ying Chen, thanks so very much for being with us. This is the 11th hour. I'm Robert Lipsyte.

Show credits over The Eleventh Hour graphic

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