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01:00:13 13.04 |
WNET NY graphic
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01:01:49 109.39 |
Title Slate: The Eleventh Hour #184, Shoreham
Rec: 5/15/89 |
01:01:55 115.21 |
Blank
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01:02:13 133.66 |
Funding for the program by announcer and overlay the Eleventh Hour graphic
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01:02:13 133.97 |
The Eleventh Hour graphic and show opener
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01:02:39 159.98 |
Aerial nuclear power plant Shoreham, Long Island, New York - AKA "The Bungle in the 'Burbs"
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01:02:47 167.45 |
Host Robert Lipsyte sitting at his desk in the studio welcomes viewers to the show. He talks about tonight's topic, the Shoreham Nuclear Power Plant. He calls it, the "Shoreham Blues" and cuts away to the band, The Surreal McCoys.
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01:03:16 196.41 |
Close up on the face of lead singer from New York band, the
Real McCoys. From his lips down - mouth moves as he counts down |
01:03:19 199.95 |
closeup, fingers strumming guitar
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01:03:23 203.49 |
closeup fingers, palm of hand up, playing keyboard
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01:03:24 204.57 |
Close up on long shaggy dark hair and bearded band member's face he looks at camera, makes a quick surprised open mouth'd face
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01:03:26 206.04 |
Middle aged man inside the cab of a large crane
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01:03:28 208.35 |
wide tilt up - crane moving large poles
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01:03:30 210.26 |
Close up hand playing steel guitar
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01:03:31 211.88 |
close up hand playing keyboard
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01:03:33 213.68 |
Wide shot the Shoreham Nuclear Power Plant on Long Island, New York
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01:03:36 217 |
The Real McCoys
(live)
New York rock band performing a song about the Shoreham Nuclear Power Plant. They are playing outside in front of the plant. Words to the song about the Plant are interspersed with various relative interior shots and other examples of the "monument to human folly"
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01:03:43 223.54 |
Aerial of the Shoreham nuclear tower with a super large $5.5 Billion bright yellow price tag overlay tied to it
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01:03:46 226.96 |
Talking head officials in white shirt, red tie, standing in the plant says it's not producing power.
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01:03:48 228.79 |
Interior Shoreham Nuclear Power plant, two employees wearing hard hats walking past equipment
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01:03:49 229.67 |
Keyboard player wearing a hard hat - drummer in bkgd standing playing on two steel barrels, a large yellow "Danger" sign posted on one of the barrels.
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01:03:54 234.32 |
Aerial of the plant with large "Approved" stamp superimposed over it.
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01:03:57 237.29 |
The drummer in The Real McCoys playing red drums
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01:03:59 239.86 |
Words to the song by the band lead into New York Governor Mario Cuomo at mic speaking and saying "...a $5 Billion mistake"
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01:04:04 244.31 |
Close up on hands playing steel guitar
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01:04:06 246.39 |
Lead singer looking back at the nuclear power plant
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01:04:13 253.13 |
Wallets dropping, falling onto the rocks on the ground
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01:04:18 258.7 |
Var shots of the band performing in front of the power plant interspersed with interior shots of the actual plant.
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01:04:33 273.97 |
Interior framed shot of worker in the plant wearing a hard hat climbing up a ladder.
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01:04:39 279.69 |
Map rendering of New York City and Long Island - depicting the distance of Shoreham to NJ, NY, CT and NYC.
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01:04:42 282.04 |
Traffic on the Long Island Expressway on a foggy day.
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01:04:44 284.25 |
Male driver sitting behind the wheel in his car - says "world's longest parking lot".
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01:04:49 289.41 |
Pan up the tower of the plant, the lead singer's face gradually fading in.
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01:04:53 293.97 |
Aerial The Shoreham Nuclear Power Plant on Long Island.
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01:04:55 295.08 |
The power plant's tower with a superimposed giant face, two big white tears dripping down its face.
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01:04:57 297.08 |
Close up the lead singer, The Real McCoys.
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01:05:01 301.12 |
Talking head official talks with unseen unknown interviewer
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01:05:02 302.92 |
Wide shot of the band performing in front of the Plant.
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01:05:07 307.47 |
Close up electronics board with levers, dials, switches.
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01:05:09 309.56 |
Two small television screens - depicting security views exterior of power plant
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01:05:22 322.36 |
Pan in on the nuclear power plant
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01:05:37 337.73 |
Talking head male official saying he will do everything he can to keep it from being dismantled.
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01:05:46 346.23 |
Governor Mario Cuomo standing outdoors amidst crowd of people talking with unseen reporter - saying we'll fight and win
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01:05:51 351.29 |
Pedal steel guitar player with hard hat, pan down to his foot on pedal
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01:06:05 364.95 |
Var talking head officials talking with unseen reporters the impact of closing down the nuclear power plant.
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01:06:15 374.96 |
Steel guitar player in hard hat falling backwards onto the ground. Close up on lead singer
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01:06:26 386.65 |
Rendering of an ice cream bar melting down in a freezer
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01:06:38 398.27 |
Saudi Arabian officials sitting at large conference table
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01:06:42 402.87 |
Fast moving very high water fall
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01:06:51 411.67 |
Same band in a small motor boat heading toward the nuclear power plant
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01:07:12 432.81 |
Close up hand playing electric guitar
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01:07:19 439.64 |
wide shot and fade out as the row boat approaches the nuclear power plant.
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01:07:29 449.11 |
Back in the studio Host Lipsyte introduces his first guest Karl Grossman.
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01:07:43 463.7 |
INTERVIEW
Robert Lipsyte: Joining me now is Karl Grossman who covered the early use of the Shoreham nuclear power plan for the now defunct Long Island press. He's a journalism professor winner of the George Polk award he wrote a book about Shoreham, he called it Power Crazy, Karl, you're going to have to walk me through just a little bit of it. In 1968, as I recall, the Long Island Light and Power company said that they were going to build this nuclear plant in five years for $70 million. Was it a trick did they lie? What happened? Karl Grossman: Well, in fact, this is the original press release. I have it right here from the Long Island lighting company talking about this plant, they built 500 megawatt plant, they identified it then in the 65 to $75 million range. 1966, in fact, was the first press conference. Actually, it has a lot to do with New York City. A nuclear plant was supposed to be sited in Ravenswood in Queens ConEd was to build a nuclear plant there. And in 1962, that project ended the city council began considering legislation which would prohibit any nuclear plants from being built within New York City. Robert Lipsyte: They were afraid of an accident Karl Grossman: A nuclear plant in the geographical center of New York. I mean, literally, though, the Atomic Energy Commission in those days was talking about engineering safeguards. And they won't have a mining company then in the several years afterwards figured well if carnedd can't build nuclear plants in the middle of the city, will build a string of nuclear plants on Long Island making use of the abundant water on Long Island our nuclear plants take a lot of water to keep them cool. And million gallons a minute. And at that point, Long Island compared to New York City had a relatively low population. So Lilco began considering what it called a nuclear Park scheme. And it was to build anywhere from seven to 11 nuclear plants in Shoreham. So it's called Shoreham nuclear power station one was to be the first and that's why the book is called power crazy. Robert Lipsyte: And that's that's the only one that was built. Karl Grossman: They got a license to build to a Jamesport in 1980 by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, which replaced the AEC, but they've only been able to go ahead with the Shoreham plant. Robert Lipsyte: Okay, now it's 23 years later, what was supposed to cost 70 million and stop me if my figures wrong. What was supposed to cost 70 million turned out to cost 5.5 billion. Not very much if any energy was produced, but a lot of people Along the way made a lot of money, right? Karl Grossman: Well, in terms of the issue of not much of energy would be produced, in fact, an enormous amount of energy would be produced. Nothing has been out nothing produced. Yeah, a little bit of low power testing, but no commercial power. In fact, Shoreham is the most expensive power plant of any sort in the world. I mean, the whole Shoreham saga is a story of extremes. And if Shoreham would go into operation, the rates on Long Island would double making Long Island rates by far the highest in the United States. |
01:10:33 633.14 |
INTERVIEW CONTINUES
Robert Lipsyte: But But somewhere along the way, I mean, this, these kind of things are not total blackouts for everybody. Somewhere along the way, a lot of people made a lot of money $5.5 billion were spent, oh, who walked away with it? Karl Grossman: That was gross mismanagement. And that's not my words, the New York State Public Service Commission looked into it and penalize Lilco $1.4 billion for gross mismanagement. I mean, for an example, one of the areas of gross mismanagement which impinge on safety, which, frankly, is even a greater concern than dollars, I mean, taking people's money Robert Lipsyte: We'll get to safety in a moment. I mean, I really like to pin it down, as I mean, there was there was a trick here. I mean, a lot of manufacturers a lot of construction, I mean, who made all this money along the way. Karl Grossman: Well, everybody involved the way utilities are regulated, regulated per se in the United States is that they could build whatever they want. And they're guaranteed by the public service Commission's as long as the investment is prudent, the investment plus about 14% on the investment. So the more they build, the more they can make. Here at Shoreham, you had contract as one was hired, in fact, big one, Stone and Webster, because of a relationship between an executive of Lilco and his son in law who worked for stone and Webster, you have union some, in fact, mafia dominated unions deep in the Shoreham situation, and you had the most outrageous instances of mismanagement. Let me just touch on one. The press release talks about a 500 megawatt reactor that was the original plan. But Lilco got itself a deal on an 820 megawatt reactor for plant that was supposed to be built in Ithaca, so it bought this big reactor from General Electric down to Long Island, but it didn't enlarge the building. It didn't enlarge the building built for a smaller plant. It's like taking a Mack truck engine and throwing it into what a Honda that's when the Public Service Commission looked into that among the other chapters in verse of mismanagement it hit Lilco for that because the pipes I'm told by inspectors and workers at short run spaghetti like maintenance will be impossible. So those kinds of screw ups went indemic in the project. Robert Lipsyte: So it packed this this two large piece into this too small building. Well, let me ask you this. The reason why will while sure I'm just not open now is because people are scared that something is going to happen. And everybody on Long Island and beyond is going to get killed. Do you think they're overreacting to this? Is this an unsafe place? Karl Grossman: I spent two years researching this book power crazy. For example, a top inspector at Shoreham who has worked at other nuclear plants. In fact, after he saw what he saw at Shoreham, he says he will never work in nuclear power ever again. And let's see if I can find it quick what he said if they ever turn that thing on. You wouldn't believe what went on there as God is my judge as a top nuclear inspector work that you're on for 10 years is God is my judge. If that thing is permitted to operate, a lot of people are going to die. George Henry a career Lilco man of whistleblower came to me with documents, no doubt about a catastrophe as a head. If Shoreham is to operate. It's a plant built in the most outrageous way. And if you're going to escape from Long Island, you're gonna have problems. I mean, just getting to channel 13 studio today I left Sag Harbor, well, three and a half hours before I got to West 57th Street. I mean, this is a nice day in the middle of the day. If a Shoreham accident would occur. Here's a plant in the middle of Long Island. People would not be able to escape from Long Island, and it's, it constitutes a grave danger for the people of Long Island. But let me just add, it isn't just the people of Long Island. We're in the month of May, and between March and May winds. In fact, last week, winds often blow from the northeast and from the east. The National Weather Service tells us that if there would be an accident that you're only 50 miles from the New York City line. You're talking about New York City being down when in fact a few years ago they had a launching of balloons from Shoreham with little notes if they would be assured I'm accident. This is where some of the radioactive poisons might land first balloon picked up in laurelton in Queens Robert Lipsyte: Well on on that Ill note, Karl Grossman, thanks very much. |
01:14:53 893.26 |
Interview concludes. Host Lipsyte cuts to next segment - the potential costs of taking down the Shoreham Nuclear Power Plant
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01:14:56 896.16 |
Aerial Shoreham Nuclear Power Plant
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01:14:58 898.31 |
Jars of colorful candy in front of bright gold cash register.
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01:15:02 902.62 |
As Lipsyte narrates 5 Billion Dollars pops up on cash register. An overlay appears of a world map with $1 bill and change - as he narrates what you can do with $5Billion
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01:15:14 914.25 |
Cartoonish Rendering of a homeless person sleeping
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01:15:22 922.14 |
Lipsyte narrates the various ideas of what can be done with five billion dollars renderings of the ideas are depicted: a man in an easy chair (70,000 new apartments); rendering of a black woman and nurse )128,000 addicts treated), students (6,000 Ivy League educations) ; prison rendering (39 jail barges); city skyline (366 million efficient light bulbs)
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01:15:53 953.74 |
fade out. The Eleventh Hour graphic.
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01:15:57 957.34 |
Back in the studio, Lipsyte with three guests.
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01:16:00 960.16 |
Host Lipsyte introduces two guests, Long Island residents on opposing sides of the issue: Marge Harrison, Chairperson LI Citizen in Action; Jack Kulka, Director Assoc. for a Better Long Island
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01:16:19 979.63 |
INSERT INTERVIEW
Robert Lipsyte: Joining me now to Long Island residents on opposite sides of the issue. Marge Harrison, a high school teacher is chair of Long Island citizens in action and anti Shoreham consumer group. Jack Kulka. A construction executive is the director of the Association for a better Long Island, which is called for Shoreham to open Jack up until now the Shoreham blues and Carl Grossman. The impression is that short term should never have been built in the first place. It's a $5.5 billion bungle. Do you feel that's the case? Jack Kulka: I do not. I feel that the misinformation that has been given out about Shoreham makes it a boondoggle, the governor coming on Long Island, and making statesman's statements such as Shoreham will blow up and pregnant women will die is the kind of demagoguery that prevents us from meeting our energy needs head on. Robert Lipsyte: Now, of course, the NRC did come out with a statement that if if any of the country's nuclear reactors would blow it might be that one, so that there is some Jack Kulka: that is a false statement. The NRC has looked at Shoreham and has licensed it for a full power license. In the words of Secretary of Energy Watkins. Shoreham is probably the safest nuclear power plant ever built in the United States, it is the most sophisticated and safest plant built. And so therefore those those that information is incorrect that that comes from an excerpt of someone who testified before the NRC that is not an NRC statement Robert Lipsyte: so then people like Marge Harrison have led us down the wrong path in terms of what we should be thinking about this power plant Jack Kulka: We have spent approximately a dozen years approving the power plant, telling Lilco to build a power plant, having the federal government supervise and upgrade the power plant during its construction. And now that it's has been completed just before its completion. We tell them for political reasons. Don't open it. Actually, the issue of Shoreham was created by Peter Cohalan, a candidate for county executive by his aide who felt that he might might lose a primary and that an issue had to be created, he created the issue of Shorham. Robert Lipayte: And let me get this right, you're saying that it's only the fear stirred up and engendered by political candidates that created a situation in which Shoreham is not open? Jack Kulka: That is correct. Robert Lipsyte: Marge, what do you think of that? Marge Harrison: Well, I see it from a very different point of view, I think that there's been really a 20 year process whereby the people of Long Island have examined the issue very carefully, and have looked at the experience of people such as the people living in the area of Three Mile Island, and have held really an ongoing town meeting hearings and proceedings and forums of all types. So that while maybe the power structure was working toward the eventual licensing of the plant, the public was moving in a very different direction. And I think Mario Cuomo as governor, and as a candidate was responding to as many other public officials have to really democratic process and assertion of democratic will. I think it's very important to try to look at where we get some of the information upon which we, as long islanders have based this decision. Jack Kulka: Let me just ask you one question, if that, in fact, is a democratic process, why is the governor so opposed to holding a referendum among long islanders to determine what should happen? One with the opening Shoreham? And two with his ridiculous rate plan that was soak Long Island |
01:19:33 1173.12 |
INTERVIEW CONTINUES
Robert Lipsyte: Do you think that the people on Long Island want Shoreham to open? Jack Kulka: I think the people are Long Island should have the opportunity to express themselves in a referendum in fact, and if they did you fail and say, yes, yes, I'm in fact, a recent poll just held in Nassau County, where you live by Tom Delater. I found that 72% 75% of the people in that county were in favor of the opening. Marge Harrison: Let me let me respond and I won't interrupt you We can agree on that. There are so many things here, let me get back to the point I was trying to make. I have a document which was produced by the Sandia lab in Albuquerque, which was prepared for the US nuclear regulatory commission. That certainly is not an anti nuclear entity. And this was a study that was prepared in 1982. To project what might happen in the case, in case there were a very serious accident at Shoreham. Now, these are government figures, and what we learn is very sobering. We learn that in the case of an accident at Shorham a serious accident, we could face 40,000 short term deaths 35,000, late and cancers. And that's significant, because we know that the kind of disease that's created by radiation, Robert Lipsyte: but how likely is it that something's going to happen? Marge Harrison: Well, the question is, when you're dealing with such an enormous, possible negative, you have to balance the costs and the benefits. And what basically has happened is that the people of Long Island heads have said, given the possibility, and there is a possibility, even the federal government bases its own studies on the fact that there is a possibility of such an accident, given the fact that there is such a possibility, and that the results of such an accident are so dramatic as to be beyond almost expression when we're talking about 40,000 deaths, 75,000 injuries. Robert Lipsyte: If I accept all your figures, and I'm I certainly prepared to because I don't know better, still, we're talking about something that's one hypothetical, and two, maybe very naturally, and three, balanced against the fact the growing need for energy on Long Island, a 5.5 billiob dollars going down the drain. Jack Kulka: As an environmentalist as an environmentalist, I look at nuclear power you as, right, as an environmentalist, I look at nuclear power as the safest form of energy. No one has died from nuclear power in the United States, millions of people Marge Harrison: Well that's not true. We know that people have no one knows that workers have died working. Jack Kulka: There has been no Robert Lipsyte: What's not true Marge? Marge Harrison: It's not true that people haven't died, people have died, for example, working in nuclear power plants. But let me try to, you know, give a clear explication of the position of Long Island because clearly, the majority of people believe this plat should be closed. And the response the Jack is referring to has to do with people's feeling that they should not be paying to close the plant. That is that Lilco should not be rewarded through rate increases, which is a separate issue. But basically, what's going on is that people have looked at these potential damages and dangers, they have looked at the way that will affect the quality of life, they have looked at the low level radiation hazards from the normal operation of plants, and they have said, can we provide power in other ways that are affordable? And the answer is yes, we can provide power for Long Island in other ways that are affordable and that do not pose these potential damages. Robert Lipsyte: What are they? We know that fossil fuel plants are going to pollute the atmosphere. Marge Harrison: We know that we're gonna have a cable coming into Long Island that's going to provide what is it 300 megawatts of power or megawatts of power, we know that there are fossil fuel plants that can be refurbished to continue to provide us power. We know that there can be an enormous amount done in the short term and long term in terms of conservation. The point is that Lilco has created a crisis. And we can go back to the summer of 1985 when Lilco was crying wolf, we're going to have power shortages and has not since taken steps to revert that that's likely to put us in a pinch where Shorham seems to be inevitable. Robert Lipsyte: Let's get back to some of the problems because even even if this never happens, I guess people have a right not to want to live in fear. But let's talk about the impact on Long Island if Shoreham doesn't open, I imagine businesses must be very hard hit |
01:23:52 1433 |
INTERVIEW CONTINUES:
Jack Kulka: the impact on Long Island is massive number one in the last two years only by a miracle have we not had major power outages or brownouts on Long Island at this time of being interrupted please Okay, all right. The existing fossil fuel plants are beyond their life expectancy. We look at alternatives the 200 megawatts of power that will be available through the low sound cable will not become available till 1992 at the earliest. And there are environmental groups such as barges that are now fighting on the imaginary illnesses, electromagnetic waves underground that will affect them. fossil fuel plants, the addition of fossil fuel plants will is is absolutely a detriment to the environment. Because of the ozone layer and the greenhouse effect. The federal government has put a limit on emissions on Long Island and there will never be another fossil fuel plant either refurbished or built on Long Island Robert Lipsyte: Now jack I would I asked you originally are businesses leaving Long Island because of the rate increase Jack Kulka: Businesses are most concerned about the rate increase, but they're even more concerned about the availability of reliable power. This summer and the governor knows this. There are plans contingency plans for for our rolling blackouts on Long Island. And if not rolling blackouts, brownouts if we fail to meet the needs of the power requirements this summer Robert Lipsyte: let me ask you this jack, if her figures about cancer deaths and dangers are real, is it still worth the risk? Jack Kulka: Her figures are not real. It is a much safer method of providing power than any other given method. We haven't had people die from black lung disease, we have problems with oil and the environmental problems, obviously, with the oil spill in Alaska. This is the safest possible form of providing energy. Her group is not the expert on new safe nuclear energy, the National Regulatory Commission, which is given the power by the federal government, is the determining factor.. Robert Lipsyte: Obviously we can interpret these statistics in different way. But let me ask you this. Do you think that groups like Jack's are putting money ahead of health? Marge Harrison: Well, I see I think the whole way that this discussion is being defined just shows the degree to which Lilco holding us hostage, not only in terms of our fear of a nuclear plant, but in terms of the trajectory of 20 years of a lack of planning to provide us with diversified sources. Clearly, since 1979, when the nation underwent a dramatic education about nuclear power, Lilco has had time to diversify so that we would not be put in the position where it appears that we're entering into a cataclysm of not having power. That's what I object to. I think that we need planning. We're going to have short term and long term to assure us that we don't need to use nuclear power. And I think that what we're being what's happening now is that we're basically being put in a position where we're told you're either going to be inconvenienced or you have to have Shoreham and the people of Long Island simply are not going to be pinched in that way. We have reached a rational decision. On the one hand, we have these nuclear nuclear sophisticates, who believe that all the powers of nuclear all the problems of nuclear power are naught that we know how to store the waste that we know how to decommission. And on the other hand, they're like technological simpletond saying we must have nuclear because that's the only way we can. RObert Lipsyte: I'm afraid I'm gonna have to close down this discussion. Marge Harrison, Jack Kulka, thank you very, very much. Meanwhile, we're left with a $5.5 billion pyramid out on Long Island, which can either open, close or be put in mothballs for some future time when this debate will surely continue. This is the 11th hour. I'm Robert Lipsyte. |
01:27:33 1653.16 |
Interview concludes. Host Lipsyte thanks guests and announces the that Long Island is left with a $5.5 Billion issue on Long Island until the debate continues. He announces the show and introduces himself. Show ends.
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01:27:58 1678.68 |
Show credits overlay scenes from the program.
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01:28:38 1718.81 |
Funding for the show by announcer and overlay The Eleventh Hour graphic.
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01:28:54 1734.32 |
Reel end.
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211 Third St, Greenport NY, 11944
[email protected]
631-477-9700
1-800-249-1940
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