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00:01:23 0 |
Show Slate - the Eleventh Hour, #115
Talk Radio Rec; 1/24/89 |
00:01:27 3.6 |
Blank
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00:01:40 17.08 |
Funding for show from charitable foundations announced and overlays The Eleventh Hour graphic.
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00:01:48 24.49 |
The Eleventh Hour graphic.
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00:01:57 34.04 |
Show opener
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00:02:10 47.19 |
Host Robert Lipsyte sitting at desk in studio looks up from papers, welcomes viewers and introduces himself. He introduces today's topic "talk radio" and cuts to a clip from the Oliver Stone film, Talk Radio.
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00:02:43 79.91 |
Clip from the movie, "Talk Radio", starring Eric Bogosian
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00:03:53 149.7 |
Back in studio Host Lipsyte talks with actor, Eric Bogosian
Interview Inserted: Robert Lipsyte: Eric Eric, you said that Barry is somebody that you would avoid. He didn't like the character you were afraid of the character. Eric Bogosian: Oh, I liked the character. I liked playing the character a lot. He was very energetic character to play smart guy used up my energy a lot because the just the tech of doing doing a talk show host but I don't think Barry is somebody that I would want to know personally as somebody I'd have in my life, because he's not the most forgiving guy in the world, Robert Lipsyte: Well, taking that next jump, the talk show host. And and I'm kind of afraid that you will be spawning a whole generation of talk show hosts who will be modeling themselves after you. The talk show host itself. Did you think this is a dangerous character out there? Somebody who is causing more problems and he may be solving, a safety, a safety valve? Or is he exacerbated? What was your feeling? Eric Bogosian: I really think the audiences get what they deserve. I mean, if people want to have a guy like this, this creates a guy like this. I don't think that Barry started from any particularly malicious place but the audience encouraged him to become more and more malicious. As far as the danger, as the as the film points out, the biggest danger is to Barry himself. There's a lot of suffering that people in showbusiness, who who who sell their personalities, go through themselves, he has a very hard time of it. Robert Lipsyte: Because there's always that sense Barry, any talk show host is taking real issues and turning them into schtick realizing there are people out there who are ready to commit suicide or at least very needy, and you talk show hosts to hang it up on them. Eric Bogosian: Yep. Well, Barry invests his own heart and soul into the show and and because it's such an angry show, and he's so angry, he, he, he loses a little bit of himself every time he does a show. I think that that, we all lose when that happens when when sincerity is being put out as entertainment. And we're, we're like you say we're talking about the things that are most important to us. And they get trivialized in a show like Barry's. Robert Lipsyte: Whose work, as as you studying for the role, whose work was helpful to you. Eric Bogosian: I listened to a lot of different guys. When I first started this there weren't as many characters like this on the air. Eventually I looked at Alan Berg's work but who was loosely the basis of this story, but actually wrote the play without knowing very much about Berg. I studied Bob Grant here in New York for technique in terms of how to argue with people, how to change the subject, if you're not winning the argument, and finally, how to hang up on somebody if you really can't win the argument. |
00:06:44 321.31 |
Interview Insert Continued (Eric Bogosian):
Robert Lipsyte: And what's interesting is the fact that you are an actor playing a talk show host. And yet so many of these talk show hosts seem to be also actors relaying talk show hosts. Eric Bogosian: Well, it's I mean, I've heard it said about one guy who's on national television right now he's in his place a very angry guy a lot like Barry. He's a big success. And I meet many people in the business who say, well, no Mort's nothing like that. He's really a nice guy in real life. He's but I wonder what difference does it make? I'm you've got to go out into the public and, and people think you're like that. So what difference is it making? Ultimately, what difference does it make to you if most people see you that way? Robert Lipsyte: Yeah. You've been on so many shows. Now, you've gotten a sense of feedback out there. Do people sense that you glorified this character that you satirize is kind of how are they taking it? Eric Bogosian: I think some people miss the point of the picture, because Barry's put out in such hardage terms. People are not used to seeing a character put out there. And and and the filmmaker and the actor make no apologies for the guy. I mean, we're really not modernizing him or making him into a hero. I think for Oliver and myself, we say, we don't know what to make out of this, this is a problem. This character is a problem. You love them. At the same time you hate him, you're attracted by him, and yet you want to turn them off, he makes you angry. Why? And the only way to really say why is to look at him, but not just look at him the normal way we see him, we hear him over the radio, but we see him in the studio, doing his show with other people with the people, he works with the people he loves. And then you get a little bit more understanding. Robert Lipsyte: As an artist, you felt no moral responsibility to tell the audience this is a good guy or a bad guy. Eric Bogosian: Absolutely not. I think what I would want to do would be to attract the audience with him, and then put them in a position where they can't help but feel uncomfortable about the fact that they like him. I mean, he's very likable in the beginning of the movie, simply because he's very fast on his feet. And he's funny. But very quickly, we start to see what he's like backstage, and I dare anybody to like this guy past halfway through the picture. Robert Lipsyte: This is this is tough. And I don't know if you want to approach it or not. But the talk show hosts, the people, you know, who are doing this thing. I was about to say the real bearish and painful I'm not sure who is real and who is not. Do they have a moral responsibility to their audience? Or are they entertainers too? Eric Bogosian: Well, I think ultimately, the our show business people as our news anchors are as our anybody in a commercial business that needs to sell advertising in order to sell, get their show out there. I mean, there's not going to be ultimately any real, serious discussion. Rock bands that do benefits for causes are doing them because I mean, it doesn't hurt to do them. It doesn't hurt their record sales. I think if it hurt their record sales, they wouldn't do the the benefit concerts. It's just you know, you can be mad at me for saying this, but this is the way I feel about Do they have any responsibility? In most cases, I think the stuff is pretty harmless. Occasionally, as in the case of some shock jocks who work on the homosexual community and constantly lash out at them again and again. I think it's pathetic and sad that they're doing what they're doing. The community has a major tragedy on its hands and to have this even more bias and bigotry stirred up is is very responsible. Yeah. Robert Lipsyte: Thank you very much. Eric Bogosian. Eric Bogosian: Thanks for having me. |
00:10:12 528.59 |
Host Lipsyte thanks Bogosian and introduces next guests: Lynn Samuels from WABC Radio; Barry Farber, WMCA Radio; and Bob Grant from WABC Radio. Clips from their radio talk shows are heard as they are introduced.
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00:11:11 587.7 |
Interviews with radio talk show hosts Inserted:
Robert Lipsyte: Joining us now are three familiar voices. So we'll let them introduce themselves. Lynn Samuels. (listening to prerecorded dialog below: You know, something, I am really fed up with you people telling me how to be a Jew. You have no right. I don't tell you how to be a Jew. I don't tell people how to be a Christian. I am an individual. Barry Farbe (listening to pre recorded program): Wait wait and we're disregarding that it would indeed suit your convenience to disregard that. But as long as I'm sitting here, buddy, you're not going to be allowed to disregard that. If you despise I've pushed my button and I'm going to speak and then I'm going to push your button again and you may speak if you have anything left to say. Bob Grant (listening to prerecorded program): Hey look jerk you asked me a question I try to answer and you keep talking. You get off my phone. I don't waste time with the likes of you. I don't waste time with people like that. You asked me a question and I try to answer and you keep talking. why ask the question? Robert Lipsyte: Interview begins: Since Eric Bogosian invoked you as his mentor for technique, I'd like to ask you, did he did he get it right in the movie? Did he get the sense of of what your life and work is like? Bob Grant: To a certain degree he did what I don't understand about Eric Bogosian is no matter who interviews him, he tells them he modeled his character somewhat after Bob Grant. And yet, every time Bob Grant has tried to interview Eric Bogosian, he has avoided me like the plague. What is he afraid of? That's what I want to know. Robert Lipsyte: Well, obviously, you taught him everything he knows, but you didn't teach him everything you know. In the sense of the kind of of life, the kind of almost alienation of the talk show host with all those voices out there. Did he get it right? Did he get it right, as far as you were concerned? Lynn Samuels: I think he got it right for the kind of person who was trying to create somebody who's who's essentially nasty, and I think brings out the nastiness in the callers. Yes. Robert Lipsyte: Did you feel offended or insulted or uplifted at all by being glorified in such a way? Lynn Samuels: No, I don't think it was horrifying. I think of talk radio is less show business. And I think a lot of other talk show hosts, do Robert Lipsyte : You think it is more issue oriented? Or? Lynn Samuels: Well, I everything I say for myself is something that I truly believe. And I think a lot of talk shows people say things just to get a response from the audience. Bob Grant : I think it's interesting that you have Barry and Lynn and myself here for this reason, one thing for sure we have in common is that we are issue oriented. And even though I disagree with everything, this left wing radical nut says, she believes what she says. And she has a definite point of view. And Barry, he can tell you far better than I about his own points of view and I respect his great knowledge. But there are a lot of people who've come into this business who have no business doing these shows. Robert Lipsyte: That's that's a point I mean, that sense of where, where you are really speaking from the heart issues and where you're doing schtick. Barry Farber: Yeah, I think, I think but Bogosian got it right about like the producers got John Wayne, right, representing the American infantry men. They thought they were patriotic, they did some things in real life that they did on screen. But nobody ever grabbed a hot machine gun and took it and ran charging single handedly towards the enemy and lived to tell the tale. You're right. So many people have no conviction. A woman, I suspect, a woman can tell if another woman really loves that man, or loves his $18 million with no other heirs, you understand what I mean? We can tell we can tell Bob as a bull's eye, we can tell who has a conviction, and who belts it out? And who will say who will take any side of any argument and mean it for the right effect. |
00:14:12 768.35 |
Interview Insert Continues:
Robert Lipsyte: Okay, well, now we, let's not let Eric drive this show because we have real people here. Do you think that what talk show hosts do solves problems or causes problems, particularly the people who hang up on people and yell at people and insult. Bob Grant: I think we fill a void. There. Look, I've been doing nothing but this for 25 years. And I can tell you, from the mail that I get from people I meet when I do personal appearances, we fill a void. In many cases, we are part of an extended family. And just as you may have a brother in law that you argue with, but still enjoy his company, we fill that role also. Absolutely. Robert Lipsyte: It's an emotional void as well as any kind of political void. And that whether you're somebody's sister or sister in law or Lynn Samuels: I think people look at it that way. I think. What scares me since I've been on ABC is is the amount of hatred that comes over the phones from the listeners. I mean, I think we allow people to ventilate some horrible feelings of hatred towards you or just hatred toward particular groups of people, toward homeless people, gay people Bob Grant: You say we allow- that's an elitist attitude. We allow them to ventilate. If they have those emotions, why shouldn't they be heard? There you go. Lynn, you make me laugh you get on the air and you say the most outrageous things. And then you're surprised at the reaction you get, Barry Farber: Gentlemen and Lynn, we have we have we have the phenomenon of David Duke of the Ku Klux Klan, who I think we all know you've had him on, haven't you? Bob Grant: I have. Barry Farber: I've had him on, I don't know if Lynn's had him on Lynn Samuels : Not me. Barry Farber: And I had him on back in the days when I didn't feel this way as much as I do now, and he apparently didn't feel as much this way. He was a southern conservative. In those days. He has won the most votes, Ku Klux Klan, that he has won the most votes in a Louisiana primary. Bob Grant: What's that got to do with us? Barry Farber: I think it has everything to do with us. I think our business invented David Duke, and I think it's time for talk show hosts to take stock of what we are doing. The murder of Alan Berg proved, didn't have to be proven to me, but it proved to a lot of people out there that it is not a toy it is not the Merry milkman and I think the confection of David Dukes and other right wing haters is on our conscience. Bob Grant: Only right wing hate. Are there only right wing haters, don't nobody from the left wing hates. Lynn Samuels : No. Bob Grant : Oh, come on! Barry Farber: Well, sure that Bob Bob, the the left wing haters, the communists have been sufficiently defeated and humiliated. It is the right wing haters who have the prairie Bob Grant : Well Barry I want to tell you something you couldn't get on a lot of college campuses to speak, they probably would have put you out of there because you would be called a right wing fascist. Barry Farber: That's right. Bob Grant : Okay. Right. But that isn't the point. The point is that you're suggesting that we draw up a list of persona non grata. And you and Bob Lipsyte should not have these persona non grata individuals as guests. Is that what you're saying? Robert Lipsyte : That's a very important, that's a very important question. Because in this country, everybody has the right to be heard, but not necessarily the right to be heard on your show or Barry's or Lynn's. Lynn Samuels: There's a whole theory that I believed in that these right wing hateful people should be exposed by being on the radio or being on television, and it's gone beyond that. No, I now agree with Barry Farber, it's gone beyond that, I think it makes them look respectable to put them on the air. Barry Farber: Absolutely. Look, they're on television, they must come out they are kissed by tongues of electronic flame. They are valid. Bob Grant : Alright, how do you feel about some black militant that is interviewed, a guy who has been blowing up buildings, a guy who has been engaged in nothing but violence, and then he's interviewed on Channel 13, for example, and below the person's likeness is the caption "militant or activist"? What do you think of that? What do you think of portraying a bomb thrower as quote "an activists?" Barry Farber: We all have our standards. You asked me about the blacklist. I don't respect anybody who doesn't have a blacklist. They have the right to be heard. But they don't have the right to be on the Bob Grant show. And they don't have the right to be on the Lynn Samuels show or the Barry Farber show, I feel that that I have to he can militant activists, that alone doesn't turn me off. Is he a hater? is he up to good or no good? I have the right to decide for myself. I'm the world's foremost authority on how I feel. Is he up to good or no good? And is he? Is he real? Or is he a media confection? |
00:19:01 1058.27 |
Inserted Interview Continues:
Bob Grant: In other words you're saying- Barry Farber: You know, David Duke is a media confection? Bob Grant: Well. Look, I don't want to talk about David Duke, because the last time David Duke approached me to be on the show, I said, No, that's it over and out. Cut. Finit. So David Duke is not an issue here. I don't know what the heck. Barry Farber: He's a winner in Louisiana, Bob Lynn Samuels : We don't want to legitemize that! Bob Grant: I don't want to turn this program into random on David Duke! Robert Lipsyte : Let me let me ask you this, because in terms of reaping this kind of whirlwind of hate that that is out there. Do you yourselves ever feel fearful for your own personal safety? Bob Grant: If I did, I wouldn't do the program the way I do. You know, it's interesting, Bob, when Alan Berg was shot down, June 18th, 1984, he Robert Lipsyte : He was front of a left wing shot by the aryan nation Bob Grant : Forget about politics Robert Lipsyte: No just to explain, Bob Grant : But the thing is when he was shot, three networks all in the same day came after me. And for for an egomaniac it was a great day, although I felt sorry for Alan Berg they all wanted to interview me the Daily News, except for the New York Times, which has boycotted me for whatever reason, everybody wanted to interview me. They thought of Bob Grant, and I was asked by a reporter, what "aren't you afraid?" And I said, if I was afraid I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing. It has never occurred to me to be afraid. Robert Lipsyte: But there is that hate Lynn, there? Lynn Samuels : I'm just fine. I'm too because my feeling is is what do you want Alan Berg? Oh, I'm not telling my listeners I'm gonna be on. But my feeling is is that it's the right wing. It's the area nation types who's assassinated Alan Berg who would assassinate someone. I don't think anyone on the left would ever go after Bob Grant. Barry Farber: I have one fear only. And that is if somebody does to me what that person in the last part of this movie did to Eric Bogosian, namely 18 bullets at point blank range. My only fear is that people will say were you see he thought he was a real showbiz dandy. He thought there were no consequences. There's no tomorrow. Everything's a free ride. It's real. It's just show biz- I want to make clear right now that if that's the way I wind up, I knew at every single stage what I was doing, and I chose to do it so like airline pilots and bus drivers on mountain roads. Robert Lipsyte: And you're not afraid now of course not. But the what what is your robot I've talked about filling the void out there and you the sense of hate. And there's that kind of sense that there's a safety valve factor in what you do is that is that valid? Bob Grant : I don't have a mission beyond, beyond speaking my mind and hoping that perhaps I can persuade enough people of the rectitude of my position. But I didn't come into this with a mission. And if anybody is going to sit here and tell you, they are doing this because they have a mission, that I think they're frauds, fakes, and phonies. Lynn Samuels: I'm a fraud, a fake, and a phony. Robert Lipsyte: Well tell us about- tell us about that. Barry Farber : Look, if you weren't getting paid, you'd still come in? Lynn Samuels : I did it for years on a non-commercial radio station. It's that I like Robert Lipsyte : Now, Bob, very well, as I told you earlier several times I nearly drove off the road listening to you, what is your mission? Lynn Samuels : I really think that that surrounded as I am at ABC with with people that I consider very far to the right that I, I think i hope i'm teaching people to be more tolerant of gays of homeless people or black people of poor people and bringing some kind of left wing perspective. Robert Lipsyte: But let's give a chance in terms of that sort of political slanted you have, you know, struggling against the forces a dark forces of of the right, how do you feel about Bob Grant's show? Lynn Samuels: I, I have been listening to Bob since he came to New York and Bob is my hero. As, as a show business broadcaster I disagree with everything he says. And I think he's a bigot. Barry Farber: I don't mind it that Lynn is so far on the left, I think we got to keep a few people like her around for research, if not for breeding purposes. But, but for a man with no mission, Bob Grant has certainly given the best mouth to mouth resuscitation to what I consider our side, centrist right of center side. |
00:23:16 1312.81 |
Interview Insert Continuation:
Robert Lipsyte: Well, Barry, you know, this is such a fragmented society, we do seem so divisive in so many ways, and and things that that we hear on radio. Often what we hear Bob Grant, the words that you use in offending certain groups seems to tear people apart more. Bob Grant: Well, if those groups are offended. that's their problem, it's not mine. I was impressed by the book written by Allan Bloom much talked about hardly anybody ever really read it. People don't read books anymore. They talk about books. Robert Lipsyte: They're listening to radio! Bob Grant : But Alan Bloom. Thank you. Allan Bloom's book, "The Closing of the American Mind", epitomizes what what Lynn said. It says though nobody bears any responsibility for anything. No one has to measure up to any standards. Well, look at this nonsense about Proposition 42. We're saying Robert Lipsyte : Well what about these? What about these kinds of stand? I mean, you're talking about pro choice and homosexuality and things that are your standards? Not? Lynn Samuels : Well we each have different standards, obviously. I mean, I think mine are more humane and correct. Bob Grant: But let me tell you this. I am delighted that Lynn precedes me. Because our station in my view has tilted too much to the right. And it's it's good for me to know that somebody is on ahead of me who has. Robert Lipsyte: I hate to do this. I wouldn't turn you off, but I have to leave it there. I'm sorry. Bob Grant, Lynn Samuels, Barry Farber. Thank you very, very much. |
00:24:45 1401.75 |
Interview Concludes.
Host Lipsyte thanks guests and cuts to next segment - a surprise confession from a former talk show host. |
00:25:20 1437.1 |
An unidentified "former" Radio Talk Show Host sitting in the dark at a desk in the studio makes a confession.
INSERT DIALOG: Former unidentified Talk Radio Show Host: I have a confession to make. I'm a former radio talk show host. It is because of this shame that I speak to you anonymously tonight with a dedicated help of babblers anonymous, I have been talk free for nearly 10 years now. Fortunately, I escaped just as I saw my mental health deteriorating, when I began to believe I was actually accomplishing something that is to say communicating, shedding light on issues, and promoting a healthy interchange of ideas. Clearly, I was becoming delusional. I would discuss an issue of burning or not so burning importance, political, social, cultural, then open the phones, line one, it is Eddie, the ad man. He utters about six words relating to our topic, and then faster than the mouth can see, segues into a story about his toilet train colony of rare poisonous ants from the far off Sudan. Thank you for calling Eddie. Now let's move on to line three. a two pack a day camel voice yells Hail Hitler, belches, then hangs up. And so it goes weepers screamers, the very rational sounding who never make a bit of sense. Those who believe the FBI has planted bugs directly within their brains. And then amazingly, every once in a while, when you least expected someone calls with something intelligent to say about the topic, if I can even remember by now what it is. But the listeners they love it. I say listeners to distinguish them from the callers for a while to the naked ear. They may appear the same, they are not. The callers are but entertainers, no budget talent. They are the lions in the cage and you the host of the tamer, alternately scolding, soothing and cracking the whip. Talk Radio is in fact an electronic audio circus. And it can be a dangerous business. At first you believe through it all that your message will prevail, that the world will be moved a bit by your electronic babblings and a sense of self importance sets in. But in the end, it's all showbiz folks. And eventually you realize you're mostly a foil and a fool and the world definitely won't budge. Then there are only two alternatives become belligerent and watch the ratings soar or take the ultimate cure. Stop talking. |
00:27:17 1553.31 |
Host Lipsyte in studio at desk looking at small tv turns, introduces the Eleventh Hour and himself. Show concludes.
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00:27:29 1565.97 |
Show credits over scenes from the film "Talk Radio"
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00:28:12 1609.24 |
Funding for the show from charitable organizations and trusts is announced and overlays The Eleventh Hour graphic.
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00:28:29 1625.45 |
Reel end.
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