MLF-2011

PART 1 - HOWARD ALK INTERVIEWS PAUL WAYNE. OUTDOOR INTERVIEW. WAYNE SITS IN A FLORAL PATTERENED UPOLSTERED OUTDOOR CHAIR.

Paul Wayne 0:00
Indescribable of what I went through watching that picture, because just wasn't my picture. It was something I really don't know what it was. They had improvised they, I mean, it, it was just a total shambles. And I wanted, I didn't want to be represented. And you know, I didn't want people to think that I had written that picture. So I decided to take my name off it. Writers Guild insists that you put some name on it. I found two towns in England, that I liked very much Haskell and gray. So I thought what a great name. Call myself Haskell Gray. The picture premiered at the at the Uptown Theater. And the following day, there was a review by Clyde Gilmore, which said this picture was written by Paul Wayne under the pen name of Haskell gray. Now, who do you sue for that?

Howard Alk 0:55
What do you think about the Canadian critics in their attitude towards Canadian Prime? It seems to me that some kind of way, they're both crying for Canadian product and By and large, attacking Canadian product. As it comes out,

Paul Wayne 1:10
yeah. What could they do? They have to be honest. You know, I've heard a lot about you know, I really sympathize with the critics. They want a Canadian theatre, they want a Canadian art form. They want the Canadian culture. And they've got to be honest, at the same time, I don't know what they can do. They they're trapped. It seems to me, they, it seems to me that, you know, I know a lot of people have been saying, only, you know, that they would let up and give us you know, and give us a good review. And you know, and what does that go into? Do? Is that going to make a lot of a lot more people coming enjoy picture. You know, it's just going to make people say, you know, that critic is a liar. That critic doesn't know what he's talking about. So it seems to me that the critic has to be honest. Now, whether the critic is equipped to do it or not, I don't know, I'm not sure I've been out of the country for a long time. I know that Nathan cohen, you know, was equipped. I know that. There are a lot of other people there who Clyde Gilmore is a favorite of mine. I think that he's very knowledgeable man. I think he's equipped to, to make judgments like that. But by and large, I mean, Canadian critics must do what they must, must do they, there's very little else.

Howard Alk 2:39
Well, you think of this now is your permanent base, or when you go back to something again, like

Paul Wayne 2:45
Gee, I hope not.

Howard Alk 2:50
What would it take To get you to go back and do another Canadian.

Paul Wayne 2:54
You know, I started out the the interview by saying that there were problems in both countries. The basic thing with me here is that my family is here, my home is here that I've established myself to a certain extent here. And if there are problems in both countries, the least they can do in Canada is make it pleasant for you think that's about that's about it. I, I went to do excuse my French, and worked very, very hard at trying to make something out of it, in the same time trying to build up this, this idea of that, that Canadian culture that I was talking about that that exists here because of experience and know how and so on. And try to create it there. It's very easy to do. They're marvelous people that the technicians and the crew and then you know, and so on. The writers too, would have would have grown into it eventually. There was because of, of a lack of, of people with experience in writing this kind of show. It fell on my shoulders and shoulders of the story editor that I brought up to do it with me. And it was very, very hard. And eventually, we were editing the show because we did. We did three shows. We did one on Thursday night and then we did a dress show on Friday and an air show on Friday. But an hour later then we did a lot of cover material pickups and isolated cameras and so on. So we had to edit all that stuff together. there, and we edited directly on two inch tape. And it took a long time. Sometimes it took two days to edit one show. And they have machine here, which permits you to get out in four hours, which is slant track machine. And I begged them to get the machine for me, just to leave me those two days to write. I mean, I was still working seven days a week. But it was becoming unbearable. And also when possible. I mean, there are times when you sit in front of a typewriter with such a tired mind that you just can't think of a joke. And there's, you know, it's like somebody pointing a gun to your head and say, be funny. And there was no way you could be funny. There's no way any more than that. You knew what you were doing. Because he was so tired. And they complained that it was an awful lot of money. And besides, I had gotten everything I wanted. Anytime I asked for something, I would get it. And this year was going to be different. I wasn't going to get everything I asked for. And it was like a giant scorecard, you know, all right, Paul got all these points last year, but he's certainly not going to get we're going to win this year. But we were all on the same team. We were all trying to put out a show. So that basically what was what was wrong in Montreal, and what finally made me decide to leave, I have a home here. What will bring people up is, you know, of course, you know, if they pay what they pay in, in Los Angeles, the writers will be willing to leave. But it's not so much that as the fact that they know that it will things will be pleasantly there, that there is so much crap going over the airwaves. In the offices, between the studios, between the studios and the network's and the I mean, there's so much headache involved there, that any writer would long for the paradise of just, you know, working in a, in a situation where you're not involved with a the studio doesn't bother you when the network doesn't bother where you are able to do, you know, whatever you feel like doing and you know, and get it out and get and get the thing done. That's one of the big attractions about working in Canada it's pleasant, once it becomes unpleasant, then there's no reason not to come back. Besides that it's cold. It's bitterly cold in Montreal, and

Howard Alk 8:15
is there anything else that you would like to talk about?

Paul Wayne 8:18
No, I can't think of anything. I told you the movie story. I do the one movie story to compare between Hollywood and, and, and Canada. And to show you that, that there are there are incompetent people, or people who are very strange in both places, but for different reasons. The first movie that I did in Canada was I'm sorry, the first movie I did in Hollywood was for Universal Studios. And I had just come in with a bunch of scripts that I had written in Canada. And I'd never written a movie before. I've written a few comedies for General Motors theater, and I'd written a stage play and so on. And I had an idea for a movie about a Russian spy, which I won't bore you with but I took it to universal and they liked it. So the story editor universal said he would get back to me after he spoke to some producers about it. And he did got back to me and said producer by the name of Robert Arthur was very interested in it. But he wanted to know if I could write so I said well, I have it's a comedy and the only comedy I have with me was a comedy I had written for Canada. I bought a Jewish leprechaun has nothing to do with Russian spies. Well bring it in anyway you know, because we will. Just he just wants to see how you can right So a few days later, he called me back and said he is love with your Jewish leprechaun story. And he thinks that you'd be perfect to write a pirate picture that he's got in mind. I said, Wait a minute, I came in here with a Russian spy story. And I gave him a Jewish leprechaun script, and he wants me to do a pirate movie and understand his whole way of thinking. He said, Well, nevermind, nevermind. Come on, it's at least it's an opportunity to do a movie and break in. What they wanted me to do is a remake of against all flags picture with Errol Flynn and Maureen O'Hara. And they wanted to do it because they wanted to promote ln Dental. And they wanted to change the Errol Flynn character into the ln dialogue character. So I rewrote the entire picture and made the main character French with a great deal of French charm and panache, and said, Whoa, was all l&l. Oh, and they brought the picture and they came to me a couple of days later and said, everything is great. We're ready to shoot it except we can't get Alain Delon Instead, we're getting you Doug McClure. I thought wait a minute It's I mean, Alain Delon and Doug McClure. I don't I don't get it. I I guess it'll lead to a bit of a rewrite. They said only the main character. And then they got Jill St. John, where they were planning to get Sophia Loren. We were going to shoot it in Madagascar. And it became Catalina Island. And, I mean, things. I mean, it was a shambles after that. So what I'm trying to say is that it's crazy here in a different way. And somehow or other things get done. Somehow or other you cut your way through the the mess of things, the bureaucracy and you get things done. Whereas in Canada, it's terribly terribly difficult.

Howard Alk 12:15
Okay.

Howard Alk 13:02
Sidney, let me ask your first question. You're doing Lombard and Gable.

Sidney Furie 13:10
Gable and Lombard

Howard Alk 13:14
You're doing something that I've noticed it seems to be that a great number of Canadians who are doing that is interpreting the American experience to America.Large number of the Canadians that I've talked to you have been working on projects, which are inordinately American, in their nature. Does it strike any kind of chord?

Sidney Furie 13:40
No, it doesn't. No, because I don't feel a foreigner in this country. As a matter of fact, when I lived in Canada and grew up, I felt like an American. Because living in Toronto, the radio stations that you listened to, were American, not that we didn't have Canadian, but all the good network programs, American network programs, crime doctor and FBI and peace and war. All of those were American. And you listen to them, not because they were Americans, because they were the more interesting shows. when television came in. You watched Buffalo, New York, and you got all the series and all the things. The magazines that you read where Time and Newsweek because they were excellent magazines, in terms of telling you what's happening in the world. So slowly but surely, the guy that wrote into the Toronto Star when they were looking for the Canadian flag, they didn't have that Maple Leaf thing, the red thing they were discussing what it should be said to look, let's just do what it really ought to be. Let's take a stars and stripes and put of Canada Limited on it. Which I thought was one of the most brilliant things I'd ever heard it through nobody's fault growing up in Toronto, having the barrage of the media of the American media working on you. I thought people who said hosts and what? A boat sounded funny, and those were the people around me. To me, an American accent sounded much more ordinary, much more normal. So without realizing it with all that media thing going, you know, if the Catholic Church says give me a child till he's six or five or something, well, the Americans had me till I was 17. And I don't know I just felt I felt American. And when I had to go off to college, I picked an American school, then for another reason. I didn't want to take a straight BA and then Canada at that point. There was no bachelor of fine arts. There was at Carnegie tech in Pittsburgh and our major, I didn't major in drama, I took drama, and majored in playwriting. And so I went off to Pittsburgh for four years, loved it got home. Got a job at here. I was a bachelor of fine arts degree. graduate from Carnegie Tech, I taken directing drama, everything a full beautiful four years, got back to Toronto, and applied at CBC to a man named John Barnes to be a floor director. In other words, like an assistant director, a floor manager and assistant director and movies. And I gave him my credentials, and he said, Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, you should have worked at a television station and all of that, done that and I said, But wait a minute, I've have an academic background. Now I'm ready to go, Oh, we don't want that kind of thing. And so I said, Alright, screw you. And I couldn't get a job at CBC with that. Finally, some guy in the in the continuity Department of Public Affairs got me a job and I wrote good afternoons. This is CBl T, our afternoon movie is Patricia rock, and James Mason and Wicked Lady or something like that. And it was pretty depressing. I couldn't get into television drama, doing anything I wrote. So I wrote some plays, which I got on. And I said, Oh, screw, I want to make movies. I'm just gonna write a screenplay and raise the money and go make the movie. That's the only way I'm gonna do it. No one's gonna hire me for anything. And I did. I wrote the script, I raised $19,000. And I made my first picture. And I took it along to all the distributors. And they say, oh, no, all the American distributors. No, no, no, no, this is terrible. And I took it to Jay Arthur rank Academy said, this is a travesty. It's such an amateur thing. So I proceeded to go to England, we're naturally at the end of the story is the J Arthur Rank circuit booked it in England didn't win out as a second feature on the government's circuit, and we made our money back from England. So what my little story adds up to was simply this. At the time I was there, the Canadians running it had no idea what to do. I mean, this man, John Barnes, obviously, Sidney Furieis now a film director in Hollywood, good or bad, he works every year. Obviously, I couldn't get in as an assistant director in television, or even get in their program. Or if he had said, if he had said to me, it'll take two years, there's a waiting list. He said, you don't have the right kind of background for us. Who didn't understand what the background should be for directing that man was in charge. Therefore, in the one Canadian company, CBC, there was nowhere else to go. To me, that's an indictment of that particular organization. And I've heard nothing since then about it to change my mind. In terms of the American and British companies doing business in Toronto at that time, they had no sense of responsibility to Canadian content to candidate to help in Canada. They took the money out of the country and sent it back to their countries. revolutions have started for less than that. So they and they were wrong. In my case, as lousy as a dangerous age was my first picture. It played on the god mount circuit owned by J Arthur rank in England on the full circuit, so they were wrong about that one, too. So the Canadian company that was doing the Art CBC didn't know the American and the British companies there didn't care what was there to say Say for? Well, what were you going to do? In Canada? At that point? You had to go forget highfalutin ideas about Canadians being wanders. I had to support my two kids at that point. So I went off to England where I'd had some success with this picture. And in fact, I did come back after that make another picture the same way. But then I ended up back in England. And I tell you, I came to this conclusion. And this is a long winded answer to your question about me doing purely American things. I've come to the conclusion that if you speak English as I think language is the biggest barrier there is, then wherever they speak English you're you're part of that scene. You go live in London, you go live here you go live. Canada. I don't think it matters anymore in the world. I think it's one world. I think language is the only thing that holds you back a bit. I think you think the same way pretty well. You respond. You know, if you cut us we bleed if you tickle us, we laugh. I don't I don't feel any difference. I could. I could be sitting in England making a particularly English story I did when I make pictures there. The Ipcress File was a very English type thriller, the leather boys was an English working class picture and the boys. I don't feel there any barriers. In other words, I'm not bitter toward Canada, because they didn't try to establish an industry or the government or somebody didn't get involved in it. I'm not bitter at all. You know, it's a funny thing. You get what you need. And when it's too artificial, it's a phony. Evidently, English speaking Canada doesn't need its own thing.