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00:00:56 2.1 |
David Susskind in the studio with 4 British women who swing.:
He introduces the guests who are all wearing 1960's style dresses: Patricia Layman, Pamela Rothon, Jane Cooper, Gillian Shenker INTERVIEW David Susskind 0:02 If as the previous guests suggested Mr. J Edgar Hoover is watching this program, I don't know how he'll feel about the previous section. But perhaps he'll like this somewhat. These are four very attractive ladies from England, who have come to America for a variety of purposes that they'll describe. I suspect them very deeply. They're swinging British ladies and their first names are on the far right, Patricia Layman, a native Londoner. Patricia came to New York six years ago, is now a producer of television programs. This lady is Pamela Rothon, formerly a journalist in London. Pamela has lived in New York for two and a half years. Is travel editor for national magazine, Jane Cooper, after two and a half years in the states where she has traveled extensively as a cosmetic consultant. Jane Cooper is leaving us to go back to England and the little lady on the far left. Gillian Shenker, one of Julian's first, jobs after arriving in New York was selling vintage Rolls Royces. Vintage Rolls Royces. She now works for one of New York's most glamorous beauty salon. Ladies, why did you leave the Swinging London scene to come to dreary old America? Pamela Rothon 1:14 I came to Marion Englishman when I was ditched for a month, so I stuck here David Susskind 1:19 Pamela, you came here to marry an Englishman? Pamela Rothon 1:21 Yes. Well, he was sent out here to work and he sent me a ticket. And I gave up my job and everything. It seemed like a great idea. David Susskind 1:28 Did he say, Let's get married? Pamela Rothon 1:30 Oh, sure. Well, it was a bit difficult because he was married already. But he was separated. And he was getting a divorce. Well, I so I thought, you know, the old story. And so he sent me a ticket. And I came out here having given my career and sold my car and given my furniture away, and upset my mother and father and everybody. David Susskind 1:50 Men are Dogs, arent they? Pamela Rothon 1:51 Yeah, some of them. David Susskind 1:53 But this was an English dog. I mean. Pamela Rothon 1:55 yes, English dog. David Susskind 1:57 Americans wouldn't act that way. You know Pamela Rothon 1:59 Oh yes they would David Susskind 2:02 Where you in the custom of dating married men? Do you think that was sporting? Pamela Rothon 2:05 No, no, it wasn't. It's just one of those things. You can't plan. Can you? David Susskind 2:10 I mean, yes, you can. Pamela Rothon 2:11 Well, I think anything contrived isn't much fun anyway. You know, it's there's trouble with American men is everything is contrived. David Susskind 2:18 We'll get that in a minute. Patricia, what brought you to this country? Man hunting? Patricia Layman 2:23 Not well, maybe man escaping I think maybe partly. David Susskind 2:26 was an Englishman and giving you a bad time back home? Patricia Layman 2:28 Several of them. Yes. You had several. Several. So I thought to change. I had lived in Rome for about a year before. And no, it's not on your notes. David Susskind 2:40 Jane, can you tell the truth about what brought you to know? Jane Cooper 2:43 Oh just curiosity. I decided I'd like to come see what went on over here? David Susskind 2:48 Right. And you've had your fill of it? Jane Cooper 2:49 Um, well put it this way. I think it's time to get back and see what's going on the other side now David Susskind 2:54 It's wilder. I've just come back. I mean, in Kings Road. They're walking around with mini minis thing. I mean, it just barely covers nature's most important units Jane Cooper 3:04 I'm surprised You came back? David Susskind 3:07 I will because those things don't bother me. Gillian. Yeah, Gillian, what brought you here? Gillian Shenker 3:18 I wanted to see if the buildings were as tall as everybody said they were really Yes. Couldn't quite conceive that. David Susskind 3:24 Having established the height of the buildings, what kept you Gillian Shenker 3:27 the money? I think? David Susskind 3:30 How does England essentially differ in the most important ways from New York Gillian Shenker 3:36 Less efficiency there than there is here David Susskind 3:39 or rephrase it? How is New York vastly different from what you knew Jane Cooper 3:43 I think it's great, great a feeling of activity. Everybody seems to be having to rush everywhere. At home People are a little more lethargic about things. I think there's a tremendous feeling that you've got to be there on the dot you know, your work has to be done immediately or there and at home, I don't know I seem to find that things drifted along a little more easily. Pamela Rothon 4:05 coffee breaks in England elevens is every 10 minutes sort of thing. elevenses every 10 minutes. Yes, it was a break for coffee, and there's another break. But here you have to work much harder. Otherwise, you feel guilty. David Susskind 4:17 Let's pick you up from the point you arrived. Where was your loved one when you came? Pamela Rothon 4:22 Oh, he was in New York. And so I arrived and David Susskind 4:25 Did he meet you at the airport? Pamela Rothon 4:26 Yes with a bunch of walking red roses. And he sort of stood there and it's fine. Everything's fine for a month. And then he said, it's not going to work. I've changed my mind. I said, What about me? He said, Well, I'm sorry. You'll be alright. Don't worry. I said but you know, I can't go back and I have no money and I have no job. So you'll be alright. So I thought, well, I'm killing myself or phone up home or whatever. So I decided to try and find a job, which was very hard because the papers were on strike, David Susskind 4:58 newspapers were on strike Pamela Rothon 5:00 So I went to advertising agencies trying to get a job in PR. And they said, We love your English accent. There's nothing doing sorry. And I ended up with. I didn't know how the compliment net name the company, but I ended up designing an English restaurant. David Susskind 5:16 Did you encounter any of the dismal Side of New York? Did you have any violence? Pamela Rothon 5:21 Yes. I had been here two days. And the police shot someone at my feet they shot someone at my feet. David Susskind 5:29 What was he doing at your feet? Pamela Rothon 5:31 He was dead. No, he was shot by the police. He was running away and they shot him. And I thought it's rather unfortunate that you're just walking down the street. Yes, I was walking down the street and sort of running your feet in a bang. And this man sort of slid up and landed on my feet. And it's all mess at my feet. And I said, What's he done? The policeman said, Well, he was trying to steal something. I said, it seems a bit harsh to shoot him. Then they went away. David Susskind 5:59 This was your first, it didn't cloud your opinion of America. Pamela Rothon 6:04 Well, I was a bit scared after that. And then three weeks later, I was on the subway it at four in the afternoon. And someone pulled a gun on me. David Susskind 6:13 Pulled a gun on you in the subway? Pamela Rothon 6:19 Yes, four in the afternoon. David Susskind 6:20 What had you molested them or anything? Pamela Rothon 6:22 No, I hadn't done anything. I was just sitting there minding my own business. And this man pulled a gun. So I sort of turn around. He's pointing at someone else. And I looked around and all the men were reading the newspapers. No one helped me. So I thought this is silly. I'm going to die in this crummy subway. And I just sat there wondering what to do. David Susskind 6:39 What did he say when he pulled the gun? Pamela Rothon 6:41 He did't say a damn thing, David Susskind 6:42 your body or your life? I mean, what Pamela Rothon 6:43 No if he'd asked for my money I would have given it to him. I hadn't got much anyway. But he just pointed this gun at me. And his eyes were going like this. He was obviously pepped up. So I just sat there and tried to ignore him. It was a bit nerve wracking David Susskind 7:00 There were other men on the subway. Pamela Rothon 7:02 Well, they saw him too, and they look the other way. They didn't want to be involved. David Susskind 7:06 I guess. There's a man that has to be asking a question out there. Audience Question 7:10 Good evening, David. very frankly, because David Susskind 7:13 are you the chap that deserted this girl Audience Question 7:17 In all honesty, girls, being that the British Motors had such an impact on American society. Don't you think that you came here? With with the thought of having instant success in New York, especially? Patricia Layman 7:30 With What with whom? Audience Question 7:33 With respect to social life business? Did you come here really be interesting to a woman David Susskind 7:39 Rasul up an American man with a lot of money? Patricia Layman 7:42 Oh, no, no, but I think certainly, I'm sure all anyone who came came with a sense of adventure, I'm sorry, question. To find something that was lacking in either in their personal life or in their life at home, wherever they came from. But I don't think that they thought we thought the streets were paved with gold or men were waiting for us at the dock Audience Question 8:05 Well then surely America is prosperous. Why didn't you pick another prosperous country? Patricia Layman 8:10 Well, for myself, was a question of language. I'm in the advertising business. And I knew that at least there would not be that barrier. So I thought, until I arrived. David Susskind 8:21 Gillian, if you were to tell this man the truth to his question, you had in mind a rich American that would just throw himself at your feet and worship you forever. Gillian Shenker 8:31 A rich Englishmen maybe David Susskind 8:33 you didn't come to New York to marry an Englishman. That's rediculous. Gillian Shenker 8:37 I think I prefer Englishmen in the long run. David Susskind 8:40 About why are Americans so good in the short run Gillian Shenker 8:48 That's about all they are good for really David Susskind 8:51 well, you seem somehow let down by my sex here. What have we done Gillian Shenker 8:55 Yeah I am actually David Susskind 8:57 What are we doing wrong Gillian? Gillian Shenker 9:00 I think American men are lacking in subtlety Jane Cooper 9:07 Track shoes David Susskind 9:08 What do you mean track shoes? Jane Cooper 9:10 When they come in, they analyze everything. unsophisticated When they come in, they analyze everything. unsophisticated. there's no I think the thing that misses more than anything, there's no sort of flirting it's all dinner and then bed. I mean, there's nothing in between. David Susskind 9:23 What could there be? I have to pause for just a moment we're coming back. |
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INTERVIEW CONTINUES: David Susskind 9:59 Ladies, I don't intended chauvinistic, defensive American men but I'm very curious, are we really lacking subtlety? Are we apes? Pamela you said it as if you have no doubt of it. Pamela Rothon 10:12 I had a rather unpleasant experience. David Susskind 10:14 Another one. Pamela Rothon 10:14 Yeah. I think you want to be a situation prone people. I don't know why. But I was introduced a very eligible bachelor. He was 35. He was a criminal attorney terribly attractive. And I was introduced him at a cocktail party in some place in Scottsdale, and five times we went out to dinner he was perfect gentleman, who really was charming. And the sixth date he said, I can't meet you at your apartment. As I have a court case somewhere in town. Meet with my apartment at six. I thought well, six date, okay, six o'clock in the evenings pretty safe. I knew him fairly well. So I go along to his apartment, knock on the door, go and we sit down drinking scotch and city and discussing the legal system in England a subject hardly conducive to romance. And he suddenly took hold of my class. I thought Oh, goody, more drink. Oh, no, he just threw me on the floor and tried to rape me. So now I'm on the floor and I said what the hell are you trying to do I sound stupid David Susskind 11:07 was I was he was uh, did you get out all right, Pamela Rothon 11:19 Well, I scrambled up said How dare you and I ran for the door and I couldn't open I was fumbling I got all caught up my long nails and things and he dragged me back and he threw me on the floor again. I said this is stupid like a bad movie. Let me often don't such a fool. And he was very unreasonable. You say threw me on the floor again? Three times. So I was I thought I'm done. This man is going to attack me against my will is not sporting. So I picked up a bottle, and I hit him on the head with a bottle of scotch when he fell on the floor and I thought I broken his neck because he didn't move. And I thought oh my god, I What can I do? I've killed this man. You know, he's a criminal attorney, my father. So I went out and left him and I walked good nights a doorman and went home and thought what can I tell no one knows I've been here I get away with it. You know, my bottle my fingers on the bottle. My fingerprint. So get me and you rang me up in the morning didn't even mention it said coming up the dinner. And I thought he was the mos unsettled man I'd ever met. David Susskind 12:22 Pamela, I don't know what to tell you about America. But it isn't all like that, you know? Oh, yeah. No, we don't get hit by bottles. a man that's been very patient. You have a question? Audience Question 12:34 Well, I was really interested compare notes with these three fellow country women of mine about dating from their standpoint, because it has always struck me that dating in America is fantastically institutionalized far more so than it ever would be in England. I mean, the double date, the blind date. The other day, I was talking to a girl and she said to me that where I'd call her up on a Friday, and say, What are you doing this evening? Well, we're still on a Saturday morning and say what are you doing this evening? Such was the pressure on her to have already made a date for Saturday evening, the evening had she had nothing to do she would refuse to admit it and say she was busy. Now this may be an odd case. Although I have reason to believe that is not all at all. Now, it occurs to me that this isn't quite the pressure isn't quite the same. On girls. Am I right? Patricia Layman 13:24 I would say you are right that it isn't the same in England. I don't feel that pressure here. I think it's very sad. If it's true. Audience Question 13:31 That's probably because you're English not American. David Susskind 13:34 Do you double date? Do you ladies you lethal women of England do double date? A double date is when two silly chaps decided to tackle the proposition together to silly girls. Yes. It cuts down privacy. Yes. You're a bit above that. Patricia Layman 13:52 We might go out with friends Jane Cooper 13:56 Not when I'm dating. Sounds like an organized bridge team or something. Gillian Shenker 14:02 actually everybody is much more blase in England. I mean, if you're if they ask you out, they don't really care either way, whether you come or not half the time. That's why you want to do they would never show it David Susskind 14:13 is that was that attractive to ask You out and not really care? Gillian Shenker 14:17 No, it's just the latest thing in England everybody is very bourgeois and sort of frightfully disinterested really. David Susskind 14:27 But something doesn't square with what you said before. You said that there's no delicacy or subtlety here that you've it's a meal and bed and that's it Pamela Rothon 14:35 With Englishmen they make it think it's your idea. You see and that's different. They play it very cool. David Susskind 14:46 Play it round to your court. Pamela Rothon 14:47 You Play a subtle little game you know, it's it's all games here. There are no games. That's true. David Susskind 14:57 I mean, how's the game played in England you go and keep having dinners and then after dinner, Gillian Shenker 15:02 We never say anything directly, outright, nobody will show any, nobody would say anything like, I think you're great. Or I dig you baby or whatever out, right? I mean, they would never get they would never say it may say something a bit of all right, you know, David Susskind 15:17 That's a thrilling line, I mean, you're a bit of all right said begrudgingly Pamela Rothon 15:22 you're right girl you know that sort of pat you on the behind like a horse now again, that's that's very complimentary David Susskind 15:28 to be patted on the behind like a horse Pamela Rothon 15:30 like it very much Englishmen have a sparing with their complements. And when they said they mean them, they could be about all kinds of things. But David Susskind 15:39 who puts the basic issue to does does the Englishman wait till the lady says, I have a fearful need of You Patricia Layman 15:48 No, I think that nobody says anything Pamela Rothon 15:54 Because they discuss it so much beforehand that it's finished. They kill any sparks that was there. And so I say, is there so analyze every little stage? And then you know, what's going to happen then is boring. There's no point. David Susskind 16:05 Could you describe a typical date with an American man? I mean, Pamela Rothon 16:09 yes, will you you'll go out and go to a nice restaurant, and you'll usually have a usual food, and he'll offer to order it for you. And then a bottle of wine and then maybe nightclub after perhaps David Susskind 16:22 What's the conversation like during dinner? Pamela Rothon 16:24 Usually, what what are you going to do with your life? What are your plans? Why did you come here? And you say, Well, you know, may told them or you may say, Well, I decided to see America? And they say well, what are you gonna do with your life? You know, I suppose you want to get married and have five kids and living in Scarsdale or something? David Susskind 16:42 You have a thing about Scarsdale, don't you? Pamela Rothon 16:44 I know I have I have bad memories David Susskind 16:46 Every since that criminal law. Yes. Pamela Rothon 16:48 And they attack you immediately and think that you're going to trap them. American men are terrified, you're going to trap them David Susskind 16:54 into marriage? Pamela Rothon 16:54 Yes. Or trying to have some relationship. They're always on guard for this. And yet, they get married younger than Englishmen, generally yet they're afraid of you. David Susskind 17:05 Pick it up after dinner. Now you're on the way home Pamela Rothon 17:07 on the way home. And then they sort of some very uncertain libertarian attacks, which I don't like very much. And you say pack it in or something and they'll say, oh, come off it. You know, you've had a nice meal. You say, Well, this is not payment for a meal. And then you get to the business of going home. And you think, Oh God, how do I get rid of this man, subtly and be nice about it? And you say, oh, I'm terribly terribly tired. I got my aunt Maude staying or something. And then they'll say you're just telling lies. You're living with a man. That's it. Admit it. And you have this terrible trouble of getting rid of you don't want to come in? Because if you invite them in, that's it, do what you can. And then they say, Well, you invited me in what do you expect for your age. David Susskind 17:52 What do we try it? How is this different from an Englishman? Pamela Rothon 17:56 Englishman is much more casual. He'll say, Oh, do you feel like going going to the pub tonight for drink or something and say yes. All right. Well may pick you up at 830 or something. So is it okay? And he'll come along at half past nine expected to read at half past nine and you don't see anything and you go out and you have a meal. And later on. He'll probably take you for a drive and park in a cornfield. Just kind of thing. And no words are said and you feel like okay, kissing and cuddle otherwise you say this and cuddle? Yes. Otherwise you'll say take me home and he'll say. Okay? He'll try again. The next day next day. American men give up. First Date? No, go. That's it. David Susskind 18:43 If you don't get a symptom of love early on, Pamela Rothon 18:46 Yeah, but what do you call love? David Susskind 18:47 Or you call it madness. But we have to pause we're coming right back. |
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INTERVIEW CONTINUES David Susskind 19:22 Yes, Madam, what's your question? Audience Question 19:25 One of you said that you're going back to England since I don't think American men are going to change drastically in the next few weeks. Do you think the rest of you will go back or do you intend to stay here? Patricia Layman 19:35 No, I don't think I will go back. I agree with you. I don't think they're going to change. But it's not only the men. I mean, the life itself is exciting. We were talking earlier about what New York has or for me, it's New York and it's a stimulation and an excitement of something new happening all the time. David Susskind 19:56 Do you are you going to spend the rest of your life here do you want to Patricia Layman 19:59 I think the rest of my life David Susskind 20:00 Or Do you want to marry stay here? Patricia Layman 20:01 No, I think that at some time, I would like to get married. And it's an American as the year in English when I go back to England, and David Susskind 20:09 Yes ma'am, your question. Audience Question 20:11 Don't you think you've probably been meeting the wrong types of American men? Because I've been here about five years. And the sort that you're talking about, you sort of if they're right, that you don't go out with them again. And the ones I've met are really nice. I really liked them. And, you know, you go out of them for a long time, and I really haven't met too many like the ones you're talking about. I think they kind of groovy already do with you? Patricia Layman 20:35 I would like to agree with the young lady. But I think that there are the types that we've been, some of us have been talking about. And I agree with you. I think one just wouldn't go out with him for that one day. And we'd been having a little bit of fun up here. I don't think that David Susskind 20:54 Gillian Gillian Shenker 20:54 Oh I agree, I think that I certainly think they're a lot nicer. But that's about as far as it goes. They're more basic, they're more simple. They're much less complicated. Audience Question 21:02 But I mean, what more do you want? Gillian Shenker 21:04 Now, I want quite a bit more than that. David Susskind 21:06 What do you want? Gillian Shenker 21:07 Well, it's it's once it's once you know, somebody want to be able to go on knowing somebody. I mean, keep finding things out about somebody. Audience Question 21:15 But you mean, you don't think that's possible? With Gillian Shenker 21:16 no, I found that most of my most American people are very basic and simple. And once you know them, you know them. Audience Question 21:24 You mean insincere? Gillian Shenker 21:26 No I mean, I mean, I'm not saying that they're David Susskind 21:28 You mean shallow? Gillian Shenker 21:29 No, not shallow, uncomplicated? Patricia Layman 21:33 No, I have to disagree with you on that. I have to disagree. Because I take it the question there is English. How long have you lived here? Audience Question 21:41 About five and a half years? Patricia Layman 21:42 You see I've lived here six years. And I think that in my time I've met quite a number of this type of one meets this in England or France or wherever one might live. And I think when you live in a place, I mean, I possibly feel more American than the rest of the people here David Susskind 21:57 Aren't generalizations dangerous. You can't say all Englishmen are complicated or interestingly complex Jane Cooper 22:03 Oh no, there are a lot of dumb ones around? Patricia Layman 22:07 I think it's up to the person, I think I really think this if you want to find these qualities in a person, and you persevere, you will find them. And if you don't, then you shouldn't see them. David Susskind 22:20 Aren'tvthe experiences that you had roughly equivalent to what you do in England, Didn't somebody throw it on the ground in England someday? Pamela Rothon 22:26 No, I found it more violent in this country, quite frankly, I have many American friends. And obviously, if I didn't like this country, I wouldn't stay here. There's nothing stopping me from going back. And I don't think I'm not generalizing it's, I think it's very wrong to do that. And of course, there are very many charming American men, I happen to be one of these people who attract situations, I've had situations all my life, not just talking about men, all kinds of things happen to me and just happen that I had a very bad time the last two years in America, maybe the next. How long have I stay here be quiet? I don't know. Gillian Shenker 23:01 I think David actually, the basic difference is in the sense of humor. I find that that is really, that about sums it all up. David Susskind 23:09 You think our humor is wanting, Gillian Shenker 23:11 it's different.Very different Jane Cooper 23:12 They think you're laughing at something and somebody says, Well, what's so funny? David Susskind 23:21 Give me a sample of the kind of American humor that leaves you cold. Did somebody tell you a joke recently that just laid there with you. Gillian Shenker 23:28 I think it's all like what I said before about the people. I think they're lacking in subtlety. I think it's basic Jane Cooper 23:33 the jokes are basic. can't think of one now. David Susskind 23:38 And English humor is more subtle. Pamela Rothon 23:40 Oh it's almost slapstick. Sometimes it's a little bit sick, I think as well. David Susskind 23:45 Your humor? Yes. And kinky Pamela Rothon 23:48 And very kinky. And I think that some I didn't often tell jokes to men, not not naughty jokes, because I don't think it's very nice. I told my girlfriends. But if I sort of tell the odd, sick funny joke, they say, I think that's very funny. And I feel a damn fool. You know, David Susskind 24:04 Have you got an odd sick joke with you. Pamela Rothon 24:06 Well, only very sick and I couldn't possibly repeat it on the air Patricia Layman 24:10 I don't think it's so much a question of jokes, but that the humor or humorous interplay between people.Not not actually jokes, but you can tease people in a certain way here that they don't seem to get it. They take it seriously where I that I agree, there is that difference. Pamela Rothon 24:26 And we have little words in England, for example, we prefix the word hairy in front of many words. So you say Say for example, you're in a you're you're fed up. So you say Oh, I'm Harry feathers, or you're in a hurry, Harry Horos refer it is ridiculous, and it's silly. But this is English humor. Patricia Layman 24:47 No no, I don't agree with you. These words David Susskind 24:51 That's why you lost the empire with jokes like that. I'm Harry fetters one an American, grab his sides and roll on the floor with Pamela Rothon 24:58 little things like this. David Susskind 25:00 You have to do better my girl if you gotta Pamela Rothon 25:02 I can't think of any other. It's very hard because I gotta think very sick things. I really couldn't repeat them. David Susskind 25:09 It's better that way, I guess you have different words in England for things which causes confusion. Jane Cooper 25:18 You're going to qualify that statement? David Susskind 25:20 I mean, are there any that are clean? I'm just trying to. Patricia Layman 25:26 when I think the ones that are clean are not funny, will you just David Susskind 25:30 yeah. Let's bang on me. Let's let's go ahead or Patricia Layman 25:34 a hotel or someone to knock you up at seven o'clock in the morning? David Susskind 25:38 Please telephone me? Yes. Yes, there are other dangerous ones to go ahead. Audience Question 25:45 What I feel is that I think the American male being more honest with the girl and showing his attention immediately is better than him leading them on those if a girl has an affair with a man for seven months or so. And the in the segment she's expecting to get married. And also he just walks out on her. There isn't this better than in the beginning? He shows how he feels about her? Pamela Rothon 26:04 He doesn't say the last does he? He just makes it clear what he wants me to say it's going to last at all? Audience Question 26:10 No, he doesn't Pamela Rothon 26:11 Well, I think you know, Audience Question 26:12 there's something that you have to feel from within? Isn't that the basis of love, though? Pamela Rothon 26:17 no, but this is this is often just, he's just trying to rope you into the bed or something. It doesn't mean to say it's going to last? Audience Question 26:25 No, but that's what that's you know, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying it was he's showing you his intentions at the moment. David Susskind 26:30 he's saying, isn't there a virtue in the American simplistic approach? Pamela Rothon 26:34 How simple is it? David Susskind 26:36 saying this is my intention. Yeah, I do not wish to deceive you. I'm not going to say Harry feathers. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna play it cool and cuddly. Down at the field. Pamela Rothon 26:49 If you don't want to play, then the game's over. But in England, they'll play on. That's the difference. David Susskind 26:55 This guys prepared to play. He wants to be truthful, he doesn't wish deceit. Is that. Pamela Rothon 27:05 gonna say I think you're great. You've got a great future on the first date. Audience Question 27:08 I'm not saying it just on the first date. I'm saying, you know, you're saying in a prolonged thing. This way, he shows you how he is. And the fact is you're looking for true love, right. Pamela Rothon 27:22 It Doesn't happen Jane Cooper 27:23 Why do you have to get that cut and dried on the first sort of date? Audience Question 27:27 I didn't say the first date. Pamela Rothon 27:27 Well, I mean, you know, you're talking about a long time Audience Question 27:29 I mean the beginning of the relationship, David Susskind 27:31 that's not cut and dry. That's fierce and romantic Pamela Rothon 27:37 What you are trying to exablish on the first date is that you're honest and a nice guy Audience Question 27:41 establish contact one human being to another Pamela Rothon 27:43 what kind of contact? David Susskind 27:44 What sort of contact do you want with this lady Audience Question 27:47 Whatever develops Usually in the first date? I'd say, Pamela Rothon 27:49 Yes that's the trouble with the first day they want to cut it dry too far. No future. David Susskind 27:56 Are you prepared to entertain the lady feed her. Take her to the theater and shake hands? Good night and pick it up again, the following Saturday night, do this for about what what would be lovely six months of this. Pamela Rothon 28:07 You can't contrive something like this. David Susskind 28:10 But how long would you like to delay any effective explosion? Pamela Rothon 28:14 depends On the man? David Susskind 28:16 Take that chap right there. Pamela Rothon 28:18 You can't tell. I haven't been out with him, how do I know? Audience Question 28:22 Let's try it David Susskind 28:25 He's prepared to rectify that, Pamela Rothon 28:27 Has to do with chemistry anyway. It's chemistry. Yes, chemical, chemical reaction could be any nationality. Gillian Shenker 28:34 I really think that it's almost the differences as being as being one race with a different language, or to another being English and being American. That although we speak the same language, and we are similar in more ways, possibly than any to other races in the world, there is still the basic difference that comes from from a different upbringing, a different life in this country and in England, and we had the war, a lot of us. I mean, most of us here had a little bit of the war, if not quite a bit of it, you know, but the whole upbringing is different. And I think this makes people different. And the same way as a marriage between two people speaking opposite languages might not work. On that basis. The same thing might happen with an English and an American marriage. David Susskind 29:23 Two countries separated by a common language is your case. Coming back after this brief message from the sponsor |
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INTERVIEW CONTINUES Audience Question 29:58 We've heard a lot of remarks Some comments about American men. I'd be very interested to hear some views about what you think of American woman. David Susskind 30:08 I'm glad you did that, because I was about to do that. Do you have a pretty definite opinions of American women? Gillian Shenker 30:14 Yes, definitely. David Susskind 30:16 Well go on Gillian Gillian Shenker 30:19 I do think that the the old cliche about American women being emancipated is absolutely true. And I feel that it's gone. Got to the point now, where it's out of all proportion, I don't feel that women should be equal with men at all. And, in fact, I was reading an article in, in a magazine this morning that was saying, was very proud of the fact that American women are now being scientists and, and are on all levels of careers at the same as men. I don't think this is right. I really do believe that a woman's place is in the home. And even if she is a career girl, which we all are, it's, it's I do believe that they should talk to him out to men the way they do and talk back to men in go in with arguments. If two men are having an argument, it's quite acceptable for a woman to come into the room and argue with them about some political subject. I don't think this is right at all. We should sit and be quiet. David Susskind 31:17 I agree With you. Patricia Layman 31:18 I like to say that I think there are two things that Gillian said one, I certainly agree with her when she says that there are certain times when women should not enter into an argument and that they should there is a difference between men and women. And that should always be so. But as for women not having equal jobs, if they are capable of it. I disagree with you. I think a woman can be a scientist and be a woman. But I think, well, that is something else, that many American women that I've met, I've been here six years certainly don't hold that position too well. David Susskind 31:52 Are there aspects of the American female that are particularly painful to a British lady. Patricia Layman 31:56 Just simply this, I think, if I'm out with a group of people, and I find that that women don't understand what it is to be a woman, and that, but that is and if they are aggressive, it is somewhat distastfull David Susskind 32:10 They come on too strong Pamela Rothon 32:11 I don't think they know how to treat a man as well as English women do, quite frankly Patricia Layman 32:14 some of them do. I think some do Pamela Rothon 32:15 think a lot of them, a lot of them are much more and lots of feminine. They could be more feminine. I think they dress very, very well, often and better. Excuse me, the English woman. But I think that they do tread on their men, to a large extent and the men let them David Susskind 32:32 Trample is the word. Pamela Rothon 32:33 Yes, well, they tread and trample and kick them as well. David Susskind 32:35 Well said Jane Cooper 32:36 There's nothing worse than when you're with people, and the woman starts running down the man she's with, you know, in front of people. I mean, whether that on a date Pamela Rothon 32:43 And I sort of say he's a fool and he sits there and takes it and I could never understand this David Susskind 32:47 Well what do you do, slap her across the mouth? Pamela Rothon 32:49 Well it's Not my position to slap her. I mean, he should slap her. David Susskind 32:53 But that would be making a scene. You British are all opposed to scenes. That's what we do we get them home and throw them on the rug. Jane Cooper 33:04 I think the man should be the dominant person. Unknown Speaker 33:08 May I just say. one important thing that I think everybody always asserts, associates aggressive women with business women or career women. And I think that there's enough indications to show that those kinds of women are also just housewives. I mean, the kind of woman who is that way can be a housewife or just at home and be aggressive, or she can be in business and be aggressive. And I think there are many career women who are also not aggressive and belligerent. David Susskind 33:37 Well, you know that many of the people who write the books, the psychiatrists, and sociologists and everything are saying that women are this way in America because men have done well. They've retired from the arena, they've said, Oh, you take charge of that you keep the checkbooks and the accounts in the house, you pick up the schools for the kids and we'll we'll vacation. And in that vacuum nature abhors a vacuum vacuum, the American woman rushed in because she had to Jane Cooper 34:03 Maybe it was the other way around. We were talking about the American man originally it was they don't dominate you, they want this sort of sort. Exactly. Saying you're, you know, you're under my jurisdiction, but somehow you don't feel Pamela Rothon 34:15 you can't lead and american man I wouldn't feel it. You would lean on one, sir. No, I don't mean to say you want some, you know, want to kick you around. But they sort of given to easily. David Susskind 34:25 He wants a Mother more than a wife? Pamela Rothon 34:28 I think I think they want partly mother and they just don't know how to treat a woman with strength. They didn't know how to say that's enough of that. Now, you know, stop it. And they just laugh and said, you know, and yell at them and they'll say, Well, alright, Jane Cooper 34:42 I think this is why English girls find this way about American men is because the women are that much stronger. And so the man is weaker and we like couldn't dominant man. So you know, it's a vicious circle, right? It's a different society. David Susskind 34:56 Did you have anything else? Audience Question 34:57 I was just interested in my views. very similar. I feel the same thing that the American man he doesn't have the strength of character David Susskind 35:08 Too bad we never knew each other. Yes, man. Audience Question 35:12 David, you're Terribly analytical about a very complex subject, which is perhaps a failing that the English people find when they come to America. I think there's one thing you overlooked, if I may just point this out, and that is it over here, the girls or young people tend to marry at a very much younger age. And we tend to do at home. This is an England I think if you were to ask these four girls here, well they consider themselves on the shelf, you might get an answer that would surprise your audience. Jane Cooper 35:47 Know, what does that mean? David Susskind 35:48 Are you on the shelf? Audience Question 35:50 exactly know what my point is. I think that your your audience tonight they possibly with the very greatest respect to the four of you may think that you should have been married many years ago. Jane Cooper 36:04 So we are four hardend business women Audience Question 36:11 What I'm, the point I'm really trying to make is, is it's quite possible that you haven't come here for sex, you have come here to further your careers and that sort of thing. Just broaden your experience without having to hop into bed with every available man. Jane Cooper 36:26 Well, this is it would look much older if we did. Pamela Rothon 36:35 doesn't worry me that I'm on that. And I'm 25 I don't consider that I'm completely over the hill yet. I'm only 25 Jane Cooper 36:42 Gosh life hasn't started yet. You know, what is this great drive to get married here you leave school and you go to college, get married. And if you're not married by when a girl certainly by 21, 22 She's considered strange. I have American girlfriends of my age which are not married and all their their parents friends are saying, Haven't you met a nice boy yet? You know, when you're getting married, and they say, oh, Jane's not. And they think that I'm sort of stopping these girls from getting married. And it's ridiculous, you know, life's too short to, you know, sail away on the first man that comes along. I'm sure we've all had an opportunity if we wanted to. But heavens, why tie yourself up for the next 60 years to kitchen sink? You know, I mean, if you wait a few years, you can go and see the world and hopefully have a successful marriage. Because it seems a majority of people, certainly in New York, and that seemed to be married by about 25. And they're divorced by 30. And where does this get you? Usually there is children involved and it's unhappy David Susskind 37:48 Pamela says it gets you alimony. We have to pause we'll be back in a moment. |
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INTERVIEW CONTINUES: David Susskind 38:25 Your question? Audience Question 38:26 Yes. I'd like to direct my question to Gillian. I think, Gillian Gillian. Okay. Now, I'll agree, certainly that there are certain differences between men and women. I mean, anybody that tried to say different would certainly be wrong, be wrong. Right. But I, when you said something about that women should sort of stay in the background of primarily, politics when men discuss politics, on important issues that women should sort of keep in their place? Well, I think that if you look very far back in time, in the feudal societies, women were considered almost property. They were treated as such, they were sold. They weren't even considered in the status as a mother to their children they were considered on as a sister, to their children in the feudal societies. I think that certainly women have come a long way. I think that we will certainly go a lot further. And I think by saying that we that we should stay in a certain Niavete in terms of, of what's going on around us I'm not participate in this. I mean, we're certainly affected by the politics that this country perpetrated perpetrates on on all the citizens of this country, so why shouldn't we have a voice in saying, what's going on in Vietnam right now? We're a country is besieged by and foreign power the women have taken up arms along with the men. There are many women that are that are considered heroes in fighting against the aggressor in Vietnam, which happens to be the United States. Gillian Shenker 40:16 I just think it's very unfeminizing. Audience Question 40:19 When your children are attacked, when you see your your children killed, you don't think of feminizing or unfeminizing you take up a gun and try to defend your home and defend your family. whether that's feminizing I don't Patricia Layman 40:36 Can I say one thing? I, the question was addressed to Gillian. But I would like to say I think that one thing that Gillian said was that if two men were discussing something and you walk into a room, if they are involved in something, be it politics or some other thing, I think that it's there, right? Or I mean, even perhaps if one was a third man that walks into this situation, you don't simply jump in. I think that women should have opinions on these things. Absolutely. I agree with you. And I'm sure we all would, of course, we should have opinions and voice them. But there's a time and a place and a way and a manner, to voice these opinions Audience Question 41:12 Everything depends on the situation. But it's not just voicing opinions. It's participating in taking a role in the society, which Gillian Shenker 41:20 You are going to be so emasculated in 20 years time that this America will be a country of all the whole world, whatever you're aiming at, will be a country of men and not women. I mean, there'll be no women left. I didn't I don't think you should take part in to talk. Alright, if it comes to watching your children being killed, okay, pick up a gun, and I'm sure that's the natural instinct of every animal, male or female. But I, but I do not believe that females. Women should try and compete against men the way they do. Audience Question 41:50 Well, there are people, I mean, your your, you know, it's like saying it's almost like saying that the black people in this country shouldn't be allowed to participate. The idea that you're that you're classifying women as a minority. They shouldn't. They should remain. David Susskind 42:11 minorities. There are more of you than there are of us. You Come on, so strong that you're not feminine at all, you're just vocal, you know, and that has an emasculating aspect to it. Audience Question 42:25 I don't pretend to be feminine, you know Jane Cooper 42:27 Part of the fun of being a woman is being feminine. Great. Audience Question 42:33 Well, I mean, I don't I don't try David Susskind 42:36 You deliver a 10 minute speech on Vietnam and civil rights. Nobody wants to kiss you or anything. I mean, they really don't they say, Oh, shut up. Audience Question 42:45 I don't want to give up the fact that I'm a woman. And I'm certainly not ashamed of it. I'm certainly not ashamed of it. What I'm trying to do is fight for the fact that women should have a place in the society. Gillian Shenker 42:57 The way you are trying to anything is masculine. Yes. Jane Cooper 43:03 There are other ways. Gillian Shenker 43:07 You shouldn't have to fight for anything. I'm sorry. David Susskind 43:11 You should win it by seductive wild Gillian Shenker 43:13 Next time you Audience Question 43:15 that's male chauvinism. David Susskind 43:17 That's exactly what it is and you should have some female chauvinism Audience Question 43:20 And a lot of women are taken in by male chauvinism, David Susskind 43:21 see you come on so strong, you remind me my brother. You know, all right, sir. Audience Question 43:30 I wanted to go back to the same thing that the girls were talking about earlier, the difference in style between American and English male courtship? I guess you'd call it? Because it seemed to me that when they were talking, praising the English man, what they were actually doing in some senses was making a virtue of cowardice Patricia Layman 43:56 Kindness? Audience Question 43:58 Cowardiss. Yeah, I mean, it's always seemed to me that one of the attractive things about America was a directness, which you have been describing as aggression. And one of the unattractive things about English society was a timidity which you've been describing as Grace. I wondered what you David Susskind 44:25 were very brave here says, English men are cowards. Pamela Rothon 44:30 Thats what attracted me here in the first place, I must admit, I thought they're all big tough, like we see on the on the telly and on the movies, you know, is marvelous Gregory pecks and Cary grants and, you know, swoon all over them. And I just found that they they're not good, but they're empty. I just have found this. David Susskind 44:57 Well, you've met a rather special kind of American man because there are some Jane Cooper 45:02 that's a very good sort of, David Susskind 45:04 I think if your luck would change the four of you, you would come upon a sample of American men that would send shivers up your spine outside New York Jane Cooper 45:16 I've found that traveling around the country, David Susskind 45:18 They're terrific in Mobile I say we're out of town out of town. I'm alright. I'm afraid we're out of time. And I want to thank you ladies very much. Please stay with us and I'll say goodnight in just a moment |
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