Historic Films Stock Footage Archive: NT-3171

00:00:49 7.63	WNET NY Graphic
00:02:32 110.09	Title Slate - The Eleventh Hour #171, Critics, Rec: 4/27/89
00:02:37 114.88	Funding for the show by Announcer and overlay the Eleventh Hour graphic.
00:02:53 131.39	The Eleventh Hour graphic and show opener.
00:03:15 153.72	Host Robert Lipsyte at his desk in studio welcomes viewers and talks about the topic of tonight's program - the power of critics. He announces guests coming up.
00:03:37 175.69	Host Lipsyte announces an excerpt from the play, "Gus and Al" by the playwright and main character, Albert Innaurato
00:03:48 186.02	Cutaway to a scene from "Gus and Al" where the playwright Al (the actual playwright) discuss the negative critic's reviews with his friend.
00:06:34 352.72	Back in the studio with Host Lipsyte he puts on his reading glasses and reads the review of the play from The New York Times critic, Frank Rich.
00:06:54 372.73	The Eleventh Hour graphic.
00:07:01 378.9	Back in the studio, Host Lipsyte is sitting with Frank Rich, New York Times theater critic and interview begins.
00:07:02 379.9	INTERVIEW: Robert Lipsyte: Well, Frank, rich of the New York Times is considered the single most powerful theater critic probably in the world. And with that baggage, of course, comes responsibility. And the question really is to whom are you responsible to theatre to yourself to the editor to your readership? Frank Rich Well, most of all, I'm responsible to the readers. My responsibilities are really the same as any writer for The New York Times or any major news institution, like the times, in that I have to be honest, fair report what I see. And in a way that serves the readers. In a sense, I'm also being honest to myself, and to my editors, by doing that. The responsibility to the theater is is that I be as fair and honest as I can and accurate. But I'm really there to I'm not part of the theater. I'm a journalist, and I'm and I'm writing for the readers of the New York Times, which is very demanding readership. Robert Lipsyte Yeah, but also the the survival of the theater. And we really want to separate between Broadway in the theater, there is a difference, isn't there? Frank Rich Oh, absolutely. Robert Lipsyte Maybe you could define that? Frank Rich Well, in any given year, a minority of what I review is Broadway plays only about 30 Broadway productions, a season now, there are many, many more Off Broadway plays. So like any other New York drama critic, most of what I review, isn't on Broadway, and sometimes isn't in New York, Robert Lipsyte but isn't there some sort of responsibility, you know, some, some little flower in a corner of a new playwright, somebody who's not quite that good yet, but to, but to criticize as thoroughly as you might want to, would crush that? How do you handle that? Frank Rich I think, if you're totally honest with the reader, you handle it in an appropriate way. For instance, you say exactly that, here is this writer whose first play is being done Off Broadway or off off Broadway. And there's a wonderful new voice here, there's some great ideas about the theater, don't go expecting a finished play by a writer who has 10 plays under his belt. So you just state your case, I think if you if you're as clear and concrete as a writer as you can be, you you're you're doing exactly what you said, it's not a matter of giving out stars or points, I don't work that way Robert Lipsyte back back to power, and what powers that you have. I mean, it seemed that you couldn't say, eastern standard of play that you liked. Nor could you kill Phantom of the Opera, a musical that you were not crazy about Frank Rich exactly the power of the times, which is, which is real to an extent, because there's a tremendous overlap between times readers and people who are interested in theater. But it's always been a sort of exaggerated myth as well. And the fact is that a lot of plays and musicals survive mediocre reviews from the times and elsewhere and ones that times and other critics didn't like it vice versa. In regard to plays would have a particularly difficult time in New York, someone in the theater was saying just the other day, to me in a conversation, that there are four ways to play can survive on Broadway and none of them involved reviews. They either have to be by Neil Simon, have been a hit in England, have a major star, or win a major award, Eastern Standard taking example, didn't fit into any of those four categories. And I think that's actually sort of accurate. It's the theater, the commercial theater where ticket prices are high as fighting for an audience, period. And it's tough for anything except big musicals to survive Robert Lipsyte if the big musical comes in with A large advance sale and a lot of publicity. You can't beat it to death no matter how you feel. But let me ask you in terms of your sensibility, you know, you liked Eastern Standard, you weren't crazy about Phantom of the Opera. One didn't survive the other did. Which would lead one to believe that your sensibility might not be the same as the theater going Publics? Frank Rich Well, the theater going public is enormous, and heterogeneous. All I can do is be honest to my own opinions and beliefs, I can invent a taste for myself, that I won't have. I'm not a pollster, just as I'm not a consumer guide. Just as we distrust politicians who cater their views to opinion polls. Why should I cater my views or beliefs to the box office? Which is a form of poll if you will
00:11:31 649.68	INTERVIEW CONTINUES Robert Lipsyte Well, not only the box office I mean, conceivably, could it be possible that you could sit in a theater surrounded by people who are either loving the play, and you're not? Or people who have fallen asleep, and you're loving the play? Oh, you keep your head? Frank Rich Oh I do. I mean, first of all, it comes from since childhood, going to theater, and always, you know, being in that situation, sometimes writing whatever an audience feels. But to me, you know, when I was 12 years old, I was seeing things that I loved, that everyone around me was sleeping through, or vice versa. And that's and that still happens. And, and, and that's fun. It's exciting to have your own opinion and express it, Robert Lipsyte but you know, better. Frank Rich No, it's not that I know better. It's just that I am who I am. When you read a critic over a period of time, you get to know that critics personality, like any other writer, and you know that you're not going to agree with any one critic all the time, no reader, I don't as a reader agree with anyone critic in any field all the time. But you can get to know his prejudices, his likes and dislikes, I have to be a coherent personality, which is me. And people read me and can form their own opinions, I just tried to give enough evidence to support it. Robert Lipsyte In a sense to make Frank Rich work for me, I have to read you over the course of a year, go to the plays, and then see where our sensibilities differ. And find out that maybe if he likes something, you know, I can't go by Frank Rich he has a weakness for certain kind of comedy I don't like or he likes this kind of performance. And I don't that's true of any critic, whether it be in the theater, The New York Times, any art form, also applies to political columnist, sports writers. Nothing exists in a vacuum. Robert Lipsyte Well, some of that is a little ingenuous in the sense that the sports writer and having been one, you know, there were times when I would like to have closed the Mets or the Yankees, but I never could have Well, I can't I in a sense, you can write more fragile plays. Frank Rich I don't I don't buy it. I mean, I think producers close shows, not critics. And one problem that we have now the theater degree in the commercial theater is an absence of producers who are willing to go out and fight to sell their show to the public and, and go around the critics or, or whatever. And that used to happen all the time. And now it doesn't happen so much anymore. Robert Lipsyte We don't have very much time. Let me ask you this, what do you do on a night out, Frank Rich I mean, when I'm not going to the theater, I Well, a night out for me might be staying at home and reading a book, or going to a movie or going out to dinner with friends. I try not to go to the theater every night, because I like to be in the real world too. And that's also a part of criticism, how plays relate to the real world, not just to other plays. So I try to lead sort of a normal life and can really enjoy it. And it plays don't exist in a vacuum. They exist because they have something to do maybe with an election that's going on this year, or a novel that was published last winter, or something that's happening in television or whatever it's I try to absorb, be a citizen of the world, like any person and not just have my experience limited to being in a theater or in a newspaper office Robert Lipsyte And not being in an ivory tower critic. Frank Rich Not not at all I mean, I think it's just a play like eastern standard of the Heidi Chronicles or any of a number of plays, we could mention the season are about things that are going on now. Whether it be people sleeping in the streets, or AIDS or whatever. And if you're not part of the world, how can you know how honestly these plays, deal or fail to deal with these issues. Robert Lipsyte Frank Rich, thank you very much. Frank Rich Thanks for having me.
00:15:21 879.15	Interview concludes. The Eleventh Hour graphic - small round animation slides over graphic ending in the corner reads: Welcome to the Club
00:15:32 890.32	Host Lipsyte is back and introduces next segment - the new Broadway musical, Welcome to the Club, where he attended the opening and cast party and then watched the reviews.
00:15:40 898.64	Cut away to animated curtains opening - screen reads "Act One Opening Night"
00:15:44 902.65	Black limo pulling up to curb on a rainy evening.
00:15:46 904.18	Large bright yellow poster with a set of big pink lips holding half a body, just legs, out of side mouth and reads- " Welcome to the Club"
00:15:48 905.9	Woman getting out of limo, lots of people in from of theater and cameraman holding ET News camera
00:15:56 913.9	Large bright yellow poster with a set of big pink lips holding half a body, just legs, out of side mouth and reads- " Welcome to the Club"
00:15:59 917.11	Pan down on New York theatre, evening- huge "Welcome to the Club" poster /marquee at top of theater under the sign for the Music Box
00:16:07 924.9	Inside theatre - scene from the play - women on stage in bridal gowns singing.
00:16:28 946.68	Producer of the play, Cy Coleman, sitting in chair talking with unseen unknown interviewer about scenes from his play (Welcome to the C;ub)
00:16:34 952.83	Cut away to another scene from Welcome to the Club as Cy Coleman narrates - woman in flamboyant colorful dress singing (poorly!), man with striped shirt, suspenders and Hawaii leis around his neck dancing looking silly.
00:17:00 978.2	Back with Cy Coleman talking about the scary experience of opening night and anticipating what the reviews and critics will say about the show.
00:17:21 999.8	cut to a scene from the play, audience laughter can be heard. Scene with four guys - singing, "don't f--- around with your mother-in-law". looking pretty much silly
00:17:45 1023.79	Talking head woman in red talking with unseen reporter about the play, people milling around in bkgd. Most likely during intermission. She feels the show may have a fairly successful year's run because people from out of town would enjoy it.
00:18:06 1044.37	Talking head male in tuxedo talking with unseen reporter - saying the play is "really terrible" and hard to believe anyone would invest money into it.
00:18:25 1063.11	Unseen reporter asks another talking head theater goer, woman with red hair and padded shoulders thinks the play is really fun and that her "DAD" made a "great investment"!
00:18:35 1073.78	Talking head man standing in crowd, other people are seen mingling in bkgd, says "great fun great lyrics...well worth seeing"
00:18:51 1089.28	Stewart Klein, critic from WNYW, talking with unseen interviewer talking about the first act, he won't commit to a review yet.
00:19:08 1106.07	Actors lined up across stage waving to audience. Audience applause. Fade out, curtain comes down.
00:19:17 1114.95	Cartoonish theatre curtains closed.
00:19:20 1118	Fake curtains open up - reads: Act Two "Cast Party"
00:19:23 1121.23	Large "Sardi's" sign
00:19:27 1124.88	Pan out from "Sardi's" awning - crowd gathered under awning waiting to get in, pink balloons, festive.
00:19:34 1131.84	Unknown unseen interviewer talking with Actor, Samuel Wright. Wright wearing a tuxedo says he's feeling "scared" waiting for critics review...
00:19:51 1149.12	Actor, Avery Schreiber, talking with interviewer about the power of the critics to close a show based on their opinions only.
00:21:00 1218.25	Actress, Jodi Benson talking with interviewer, smiling says she'll have a good time in the meantime
00:21:08 1226.05	Cartoon theater curtains opening to "Act Three". "The Reviews".
00:21:13 1230.85	Footage from WCBS critic, Dennis Cunningham. Cunningham reviews "Welcome to the Club". - Not so good! Uses words to describe the play as, "vague, mixed up, childishly vulgar and out of focus"
00:21:25 1243.58	Montage of critics reviews of the play from Jeffrey Lyons, WPIX; Stewart Klein, WNYW; and Joel Siegel, WABC;
00:22:20 1298.71	The Eleventh Hour graphic overlay on wide shot of the studio, Host Robert Lipsyte is seated with two guests.
00:22:33 1310.92	Host Lipsyte is back and announces that print reviews were overall just as terrible and the play closed in a week. He introduces his guests.
00:22:37 1315.12	Howard Kissel, Drama Critic from the Daily News seated in studio, poster from the show "Me and My Girl" hanging behind him. Lipsyte unseen introduces him and reads Kissell's review of "Welcome to the Club". Robert Lipsyte: One of the toughest reviews Howard Kissel of the Daily News wrote, to be able to appreciate welcome you must be able to make subtle gradations in awfulness. Welcome to our club Howard.
00:22:46 1323.9	Rocco Landesman, Broadway Producer of "Big River" and "Into the Woods" seated in studio with poster of Les Miserables behind him. Lipsyte introduces him and welcome him to the show. President of Jujamcyn Theatres. Welcome, Howard.
00:23:04 1341.9	INTERVIEW Robert Lipsyte If that show had come in with a lot of money and a lot of advanced sale would they have been able to make an end run around you guys and succeeded? Howard Kissel I suspect not. There are certain shows Greece I think didn't get awful reviews like Welcome to the club, but Greece got very mixed or mediocre reviews. But it was a subject people I think enjoyed the idea of alimony jail people singing songs bad mouthing their mother in laws I don't think that the average person this is I don't think this is why he goes to a Broadway show. Robert Lipsyte Now there are other shows on Broadway now that got around you guys. Howard Kissel There probably are there was a show that closed recently Starlight Express which I think we gave reviews almost as bad as we gave Welcome to the club but I think it succeeded because it had a good set. And nowadays a good set can sell a show. Robert Lipsyte What about Les Miserables Howard Kissel Les Miserables was a mystery to me. But again it sometimes shows become hits because they enhance your status. I went to see it recently because a friend was in it. And my sister was waiting for me outside the theater and she noticed as with all the big British shows, you can't just arrive on foot or in a taxi you have to rent a grace stretch limo, she noticed there was a little battery of people with Polaroid cameras, because obviously the people arriving in gray stretch limos don't go in gray stretch limos every night. So you have someone there to provide a memento of your arrival at the theater. This I think has nothing to do with the theater. But again, it's a status enhancing event. Robert Lipsyte The theater is that kind of theater may be part of theatre. So maybe we need Rocco maybe we need critics, people who see a lot of plays to tell us what's good and bad. Rocco Landesman In a way the critics are better qualified, they will have seen other works by that particular writer, they will have seen many, many more plays than the than the typical person who goes to the theater in a way they are. They are experts. Of course this is the one area in the world where everybody claims the validity of their own opinion. SJ Perelman had a great line once he said, I don't know much about medicine, but I know what I like. And everyone seems to have their own opinion about about works of art. And the critics are a little more expert, I think in this
00:25:16 1474.1	INTERVIEW CONTINUES Robert Lipsyte who is in the theater going public. I don't think there really is a theater going public other than critics who go to all the plays who decides ultimately Is it is it someone from out of town. Rocco Landesman You Yes, this is the problem with the with the theater today. Going to the theater is a $500 experience. You've got to get the babysitter. You've got to get the Transportation, the dinner on the town, the the whole thing, the price the tickets themselves. It's $500. You don't spend that lightly. You want to have that certification that in premature, that it is going to be the the thing to do. Robert Lipsyte It's going to be an experience whether it's good or not. There'll be a stretch limo and somebody's taking your picture. Rocco Landesman Yes, yes. And you want somebody to tell you ahead of time that it's going to be important experience. You can't go to the theater anymore casually. You can't simply decide at dinner time. Okay, we'll go to the theater night. What's there? What will we see? Robert Lipsyte What is there? Is there any chance of any kind of middle ground? Are people going to be able to go back and see theater a little more casually? Howard Kissel I think we have to remember that. In addition to Broadway in New York, there's Off Broadway and there's off off Broadway. And people go to those things regularly. Though. One of you mentioned, I think it's true. We don't have people who go to the theater regularly as people did in New York, 30 years ago, they only want to go for something special. And I think part of it is the cost. Robert Lipsyte Because I know that I've pretty much scratched off Broadway and Broadway musicals. I've been just disappointed too many times. When when you bring a show into the Jujamcyn theater, and I of course, you would only bring in good shows Rocco, but in the back of your mind is is forget about, you know, the play and the playwright and the actors. It's the money bringing in enough money to survive, isn't it? Rocco Landesman That's the job of the producer to reserve for potentially bad reviews, to have enough money in the bank to run the show, no matter what the critics say, I still wonder to this day, what would happened to Kerry, which might have been this year's grace. If the producer had $2 million in the bank to run the show, which was a show the audience's adored and the critics didn't? Robert Lipsyte Is this a good system? That sounds? Does it somehow, something I don't get here, it doesn't make sense, Howard Kissel again, where I don't think we like to think of ourselves as the arbiters of public taste. I think we are concerned with the level of Robert Lipsyte power because before I spend $50, even for a consummate experience, you know, I look to you to tell me whether I'm going to be a fool. Howard Kissel Um, I think yes, you want what I think of as good advice. But my major concern is I think something that must be remembered is nobody loves the theater as much as we do. Nobody goes to the theater three or four or five times a week the way we do. And I think we're concerned about what the theater is and what the theater can be. And that's reflected in our reviews. But sometimes the person who's buying a ticket just wants to have a good time, which I think is fine. I think you can have a good time at a good play as well as at a bad. Robert Lipsyte But also you can convince yourself that you had a good time at a bad play. Because it was loud. It was garish to a stretch limo, so and everybody else was sitting there and clapping. Hopefully that is part of the theater too Rocco Landesman, Howard Kissel, you both have four stars. I'm gonna have to close your show right now. This is the 11th hour. I'm Robert Lipsyte.
00:28:36 1674.82	Interviews conclude. Robert Lipsyte introduces himself and the show. Show end.
00:28:53 1691.58	Credits overlay Eleventh Hour graphics.
00:29:07 1704.87	Funding for the show by announcer and overlay the Eleventh Hour graphic.
00:29:22 1719.87	Reel end.