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01:00:00 0	PETE FORNATAL INTERVIEWS SAM MOORE. MOORE AND FORNATALE CHAT CASSUALLY BEFORE SHOW STARTS.
01:05:55 356	INTERVIEW BEGINS: Pete Fornatale 5:56 Hello again, everyone and welcome to another edition of mixed bag radio. This is Pete Fornatale at the Gibson Baldwin showroom in New York City. And today we're going to do something a little bit different. We're going to take a guided tour of some great American soul music with one of its greatest practitioners. Sam Moore will be talking to Sam right after we listen to his first major hit with Dave Prater on mixed bag radio Pete Fornatale 6:27 That's Sam and Dave on mixed bag radio with Hold on, I'm Coming a monster hit back in 1966. Sam, what are the ingredients that turn that song into such a big hit for you? Sam Moore 6:40 I couldn't tell you Pete. For the life of me, I can't tell you Pete Fornatale 6:45 no recipe. Sam Moore 6:46 No. If there was such thing as a recipe you would I guess it's it's the way it was put together. Because when it was first put out radio being radio in those days. You couldn't be that suggestive? You know, they didn't like that. Right? And it? It didn't come out. Hold on I'm coming. It just came out. I'm coming. And the FCC said, No. Can't do that. Pete Fornatale 7:23 You had problems then getting it out Sam Moore 7:26 Atlantic. I had problems at that time. So Tom Dowd that was with Atlantic at the time, brought it back brought the mix back down. And he said you're gonna have to do much better than this, but they're not going to accept it like this. Because when you listen to the words, you know, hold, you know, don't you ever feel bad lean on me. Lean on me that was not in there. It was, you know, feel on me or something to that, you know, when you know, times are bad and and we had to change hold at first. The first verses we had to change they had to change for us. Pete Fornatale 8:07 Wow, that's so interesting to me. Because now you perform it with a gospel choir. Yeah, I happen to be lucky enough to hear the version that you did recently at the charity concerts, the Christmas charity concerts, which we'll talk about later on. And and, and one can certainly put it in that category of songs, like, lean on me. Yeah, like, reach out? Sam Moore 8:36 Absolutely, absolutely. Pete Fornatale 8:38 But it's certainly captured an audience where that was the first really big hit Sam Moore 8:43 the biggest of the biggest at that time. Pete Fornatale 8:49 We're going to take things back to the beginning and see if we can work our way forward. And in that vein, my first question to you is what was the king of hearts club? And why was it important to you? Sam Moore 9:03 The King of Hearts Clow? Wow, you're going back. So Peter, that was one of the first clubs where before I got with Dave, I was hired as through being a little liar, and a dare to take a chance of working in a club as an emcee, a comic and a singer and emcee to bring home the The Wednesday night audience to you know, the crowds to say, you know, like, like to do it on American Idol and stuff like that. Pete Fornatale 9:41 Now that you mentioned it, I remember that there's a story connected with your audition isn't there? Sam Moore 9:49 Yeah, it was, like I said it was a lie in a day I was you know, you trying to impress your buddies. And that was a sign in the window of the of the club, which at the time I turned from a country club into a soul, soul nightclub in a predominantly white section of Miami, Pete Fornatale 10:12 which is where you were born and raised. Sam Moore 10:13 Yes, yes. Yes. Primarily raised. And I went in and I spoke to the guy and he asked me, what was my qualifications? And I told him, he said, you ever did an MC where? Yes. And you know how to you know how to tell jokes? Yes. Where, and I told him lay on the beach, you know, Fountain Blue. He's like, Oh, really? Okay. We can come back whenever you want me. He said tomorrow night. Okay, right the next night, and I did. Okay. You know, I took the names down and whatnot. And then it was time for me to tell some jokes. What the only joke I knew at the time was Knock, knock, and then go and who's there? And it was awful. And I only knew one song because you're nuts. And I come from a gospel background. And I did, Danny Boy, you never smile again. wasn't working too. Well, you know. And Jackie Wilson. At the time, after leaving the Domino's he had a rags to riches. So I knew that he was I saying that. And then I told another knock knock who's there? And the owner of the club that became Dave, and my manager after soon after, said to me, Look, don't sing. I mean, don't tell jokes. You sound stupid. Pete Fornatale 11:41 You're not funny. You're not funny. Funny Little joke, see, heard the singing part. Sam Moore 11:47 The singing part, he was not even that impressed. Now, he really wasn't that impressed with Pete Fornatale 11:53 what I'm assuming that you hadn't found your own secular voice yet, so to speak, Sam Moore 11:58 I still had that gospel, just stand there and yodel and sing and, and that was that I hadn't gotten my life, you know, my legs up under me. So I wasn't. And I really wasn't that sure about myself as being that kind of a performer. And I don't even consider myself a performer. I consider myself just to being an MC, saying and bring the axon and get off the stage. So I hadn't got my legs under me. Pete Fornatale 12:27 Your daddy was a preacher. So I am assuming that church music was your entry into the into the music world? Who would you say was the greatest influence in the transition from church music to secular music? Was it the man you already mentioned? Jackie? Sam Moore 12:47 Jackie was before? Well, Sam was, you know, so after Sam left the Soulsetters, and I was invited to try out for the Soulsetters. Yeah. And Jack had already made it. You know, even Domino's he had Rags to Riches to be loved and all this stuff. I had heard about Jakie hadn't even hadn't seen him. But Sam was doing so when Sam left and I heard what Sam was doing, and how he had just tried to disguise his voice and doing wonderfully when he turned into lovable. I said, Well, you know, that's what I you know, I'm gonna do that. But the influence was when I went to see Jackie I saw this the sign at this club at the Nightbeat I went by and I saw that my god is Jackie Wilson, you get a chance to hear his voice you know, he just guys saying never seen him act, you know, perform. And I got a chance to you know, I'm in the neighborhood so I can get in the club free. And I went in and I said and when this guy came out the women was just screaming and yelling every time you every move he made well, you would have thought I was a woman to get out of screaming and God gave me leggings on the floor. And I said that's what I want to do. I want to say saying and people will look at me and I think they've kind of thought this guy he's kind of we don't know we got I soon after forgetting that I was I have a partner you know I have a plan. I forgot all about it. But I became a I watched this man I watched every nuance that he ever done. He ever did. And I watched and I learned everything and not the voice because I knew I couldn't sing like that the moves. I learned every move in could do the I'm a young fella then I could do all the falls in the springs and in could I was a fighter at one time too. So I became a professional, old Jackie Wilson. And I went back and I was pulled to God with a Soulsetters as I told you. I didn't go out with the Soulsetters Pete Fornatale 15:12 Mr. Excitement was just one of his nicknames. Sam Moore 15:15 He was exciting. Pete Fornatale 15:16 Now I understand that there's even a Jackie Wilson connection to you're teaming up with Dave. Some song that he was doing, and forgot the words to is that right Sam Moore 15:29 Here in New York City. We were recording for roulette records. And Henry Glover, That was the producer for Sam and Dave at the time, from roulette. We had finished doing some songs and whatnot. And Jackie was there. You know, he came into the studio cuz he had heard we were there. And he came by and he went back to the hotel, he said, Look, I got the song. We can get it out, I want you to sing the song. He never Jaga was not the one to say, Would you like to say no, you're gonna say you're gonna sing the song. And he ran it down to me, you know, he sang it down. Play, you know, he had a guy to play guitar. And we go back over to the studio that makes night. And he talked with Henry Glover and Henry Glover made a rhythm track. And we went into studio. And they was having problems at the time because St. Jackie had the key. Well, he was saying he wasn't high, but it was too high for Dave. So I want Sam to take the lead. So I turned around and started singing the lead. And he stayed in the studio. And when you when you listen to it, if you go back and if there's an old copy anybody around you'll hear Jack in the background singing don't. And it was really it was it was really great. You know how it came out. Pete Fornatale 17:07 That's like, what is that? What does that just remind me of? Bring it on home to me, which was by Sam has Lou Rawls Absolutely. On the background? Absolutely. I didn't know that at the time. But years later when you go back and listen. Yeah, gives it a whole a whole new appreciation. You've given me some homework here. I'm gonna go back and find Jackie. Sam Moore 17:31 Yeah, it's called. It's alright. It's Pete Fornatale 17:33 It's alright. So, you know, I was actually referring to something that happened even earlier than that probably at the King of Hearts Club. Okay, where Dave was on stage doing doggone around Sam Moore 17:46 Doggin around, go ahead. Pete Fornatale 17:47 And he went up on the lyrics and you fed them to Sam Moore 17:51 Oh, that was Dave, I did that. I did that with Dave. Dave had come into the club. Come over to the Kingdom Hall. Pete Fornatale 18:00 Did you know each other at that point? Sam Moore 18:02 No, I heard about him. And, and but I heard this about this young man that sounded like at first they, they said he sounded like Jackie Wilson. Then it turned from Jackie Wilson to Sam Cooke. And, you know, I was interested because I'm interested in both of these guys. And I know them very well. And I said, Well, you know, one day, whenever I get a chance, maybe I'll go see this, you know, catch him at one of these amateur hours. But so happened he came to the club where I was the MC and I recognize the name he crafted with shenana Prater. It's such a first name and your last day paid us Oh, you know, we're gonna learn from that. And we got a young lady was on stage. And she sang Eloi swarming, singing young lady sounded like Aretha. So she was great. Then I called Dave. And after this young lady got finished singing day wasn't going to win anyway. But anyway, the guy had to go up on stage. So I call him and I said he's gonna sing this song, talking to me around and the guy gave him this big Aficio bone. You bet us and he did good. He really? You know, you bet us out yo, dog. Oh, don't sound like Jackie. That's okay. But when he got to the verses can help it much longer and when he went there, he went can help it much longer. Pete Fornatale 19:52 And froze Sam Moore 19:54 that's what I'm doing. Here froze the bands, the the rhythm section, stop, I stop, go usually I don't stay on stage when the artist is actually there. And I turn around and he was just now he's sweating. Wow, is that he's been laughing. And he has a process. And the process is getting, you know, like, small. The process is going back to reset. And I'm looking and I see this guy's ready to get into freak, you know. So I walked up and I said, and people are screaming. So I said, Look, I know the song. I'll step in help you, I can't say with you. But I'll help you. You don't know the verses. So I know everything that I say you say, you know, just good. I'm say, give them a chance and blah, blah, blah, bring him back. So you went all over again. And when he got away, I said I can't help it. He had held my hand. And I'm trying I'm trying to get my foot is getting caught, you know, I'm trying to get, but I'm trying to back up. It has a pull my putting my flip back. The cord is wrapped in the mic is going now my hair is not doing that. But I'm sweating. And my eyes are getting by the size of this room. And I'm trying to leave with one arm to get in. And he's going down to get it because he's nervous and he wants to do something. And the audience thought that was the act. And for the next 21 21 22 Maybe 21 years. Sam day was Sam and Dave Pete Fornatale 21:54 and wow. So in a weird way the duo was born in that moment. Sam Moore 22:00 yeah. Pete Fornatale 22:01 That's terrific. Sam Moore 22:02 Not by choice. Pete Fornatale 22:05 Before we get too far away from it, I said that this would be a a guided tour of great American soul music and I can't believe this but it will be 40 years this year that we lost. Sam Cooke. Is there a favorite song of his that you have that we should play? Or is there a Sam Cooke song that you've recorded that we could play? Sam Moore 22:33 I did record? Well, I didn't. I didn't. Well, I I recorded a song that he had written for the Sam's twins. But it before it became a song for the Sam's twins. It was a gospel song called Save me. Jesus saved me. Which turned out to be So soothe me baby. soothe me Pete Fornatale 23:04 that's on the besta. Yes. Let's listen on mixbag radio. Pete Fornatale 23:10 That's great, because that'll show the connection between Yeah, that's great. Yeah. Pete Fornatale 23:17 That is soothe me, written by Sam Cooke performed by Sam and Dave from their best of album. This is Pete Foranatale on mixed bag radio. I'll have more with the great Sam more right after this.
01:23:50 1431	SEGMENT TWO OF INTERVIEW WITH SAM MOORE: Pete Fornatale 23:52 Pete Fornatale back with you on mixed bag radio with my special guest today. Sam Moore. Sam, we've established that you spent your growing up years in Miami. But you are so identified with Memphis and the Stax volt sound. How did the boy from Miami get to Memphis? Sam Moore 24:12 I don't know. I know. We Dave and I. Dave Prater and I. We were signed to Atlantic. That's the contract. Pete Fornatale 24:25 Here in New York. Sam Moore 24:26 Yes. When we signed the contract we signed it in, in California. But yes, we were signed to Atlantic in New York. And we were then I at the time I call it being shipped. being shipped we were shipped down to Memphis and I I tell you, I as much as I knew about Memphis, you know, I knew country and the blues. And I really wasn't all that good. On How about it, you know, kind of sad, but you know, hey, you get ready to go record you sign a contract and you. So we went down there and to Memphis, Tennessee and I remember the people that we first met Jim Stewart. Al Jackson, Steve Cropper. And pretty, pretty happy, pretty happy when I saw these people, Jim Stewart, which was going to have to be the engineer and part owner of stack. He's the S T. He's the staff steward. Yes. Right. His sister Pete Fornatale 25:48 Axton. She's the AXpeople don't know that. I think. I think they think in terms of staff. Sam Moore 25:55 I know. It's a brother and sister. And it was in whether it's just a lawyer, or however you Pete Fornatale 26:01 put it. It was an old converted movie theater. Sam Moore 26:04 Yeah, yes. And I could live with that. That was fine. But what what got to me was this, they were waiting on Isaac Hayes, to come, you know, come come around to the studio. And as I was standing there, Dave, and I had just gotten out of the cab. And Mr. Stewart says, oh, here comes Isaac now. And I looked. And I went, all the water first came into my tears bulged up into my eyes. This guy had hair. And he had this beard. You know, like so. And he had on this. I think it was peak. See through net like shirt, Peter. And he had chartruse pants and a white belt. And I went down and he had on pink socks. And white shoes. And Dave, this is it. What have we gotten ourselves into? A call Jerry? Call somebody we got to get out. And Jim Stewart said, no, no, no, no, no. This is going to this is going to be one of your producers. One of the producers. Is anyone else like him. I'm saying to myself, and round the corner he comes Dave Porter, with this little stingy brim had been during the daytime. He's an insurance. Man, going from house to house setting insurance with pal pushes pants on and shoes and with holes in the bottom and well, what are we what are they doing to us? You know, and he said What am I supposed to propose? He said, Oh, I'm i I'm Dave Porter. Okay, and he had a lot of teeth, right. I knew we were in trouble. So we went inside. And then he started playing some songs introducing songs so that we were we were going to record not to see if we wanted to record them but to recall. We had no cloud. Nobody it and they played Jodie Ryder catch up on it. Another way of doing it baby hate you. Last night. You got to understand Peter, my mind is set Sam Cooke. Jackie Wilson, literally John. You know, people like that. Benton, you know, what are you doing? I don't know what's going on. And I didn't like any of these songs. But we stuck it out. Pete Fornatale 29:11 There must have been a moment though, where it clicked, where the idea of the songs that they were giving you and the production that they were production and musicians that they were surrounding you with what was the perfect vehicle for Sam and Dave? Yeah, Sam Moore 29:31 they relied more and I didn't know it then what they were relying more on, at first trying to get David to harmonize. That wasn't working very well. Because we David have never harmonized like the Everly Brothers, the righteous brothers. We never we blend it but we never harmonize right. There's a difference. Yes. When that didn't work then what they did they started putting in a third verse of a song. And there would have been an instrumental to where we would go back to the top. And then I would do all the, the dynamic, then the the voice and all that. And when they when they discovered that when Isaac discovered that, and also the rest of the staff, then they start started relying. Which is so, so sad. They started relying more on my voice that became an albatross with dave because where I actually was comfortable singing at that time, up in the ceiling if need be it because it was easy for me. It wasn't easy for my partner. So they had to be very careful how they designed the songs, a lot of times, I have a string come off the road, and they had to wait. Sometimes 10 days before I could see because we had been on the road. So they wanted that clarity, but they also wanted that raw rough. And I gave I gave them that. But they didn't know that actually was straining me. So a lot of the early stuff that you hear you, you know he had clarity in it, you hear roughness That's rough, like I'm angry, you know, and they paid up Sam and Dave, but actually that wasn't because I was straining to compensate for what they were how they were designing the song. Pete Fornatale 31:38 And I'm sure it had an impact on the dynamic of the duo, which we'll talk more about in a bit. But you anticipated one of my questions. The two giant hit making machines in the 60s were Motown out of Detroit and Sax folk at a Memphis, how would you characterize the differences between what Motown was doing? Excuse me, between what Motown was doing? And what Saks Folk was doing? Sam Moore 32:09 That's a good question, because, and I'll tell you why. We started, David. Well, I did was focusing in on more as to what Motown was doing. And that was not getting us anywhere. Because now you find yourself competing against Motown. And you got people writers coming in there got Motown stuff, Chicago stuff, Miami stuff. And he throwing songs at us that a lot of those songs that they were introducing, although Hasan Porter is our producers, but a lot of the songs that they were introducing to us they did not fit I'd be the first to tell you they did not fit and they had to throw those out. And we had so what I remember them saying to me they call me on the carpet when they say look stop worrying about what Motown is doing. Concentrate on what we're doing it or with what we're trying to do for you guys. Stop tried don't focus on what Marvin is doing. Mark Johnson is doing stop focusing let us hear you. You say let Dave catch you understand you pitch Dave can we don't want to hear any more about well motor Well, Marvin Gaye is doing this time and reel it's doing the s you know do overs and whatnot maybe wheels. So I I got down to so they focused more on writing. And the answer to your question about what songs I I think it was about the fifth song that I started appreciating more of the writing of hazing. Hazing Porter, I think I learned I liked I take what I want you don't know like I know. I started coming into Say. Okay. Okay, trying to harmonize and that was the last time I tried to stay there you know that just say here and for Dave in another another end and it would saying Dave's spot where he wanted Dave to stay it would have worked. If he didn't stay there. You know, he would have stayed there it would work. But as the years came about people in his ear Hey, you know, you're not people can be sometimes it can be very vicious. But I started about the fifth song in coming into my I own Pete Fornatale 35:01 the epitome of, of your success in those days came in 67 with an anthem that speaks as loudly and clearly in this new century as as it did back then. And that of course is soul man. Did you know what were you good at? Knowing when you had a piece of material that was going to grab the grab the audience? You didn't hear it that way? Sam Moore 35:30 No. I just found that that soul man was really an anthem of it was political pull up a political? Uh huh. It really was. You hear a lot of coming to you on a dust road, and all of that, but you got to focus it on what the story was all about, and the struggle that was going about at the time, people. The reason people like that song today, and I found out is it's a song, you were going through the struggle of civil rights and freedoms and all this stuff and the marches and whatnot. But people would come see us having a saying that, and they will walk out either humming, singing, dancing, they may have walked in there with the struggle on their mind, worrying about whether they're going to get their next meal out of the house being burned down when they got back home from the from the clan or whatnot. But when you walked out from our show, you feel good about yourself. Pete Fornatale 36:35 That's very interesting, because on the one hand, you had Curtis Mayfield and the impressions thing and keep on pushing. Yes. And on the other hand, you had James Brown, yes. I'm black and I'm proud, Sam Moore 36:48 which he never said. Pete Fornatale 36:49 That's not the that's not the Sam Moore 36:52 he if you're not, he'll say said loud. Yeah. Okay, like I say to up to say it loud. Pete Fornatale 36:58 I'm black, and I'm proud. Did I say you've given me more homework now when you cut that? My point though, is that in the middle of that, there's Sam and Dave, with Soulman on mixbag radio. We got a cue for that. Gosh, that Sam and Dave and their classic recording from 1967 number one on the r&b charts number two on the pop charts, Soul Man a song that has enjoyed a couple of life's since then. Yeah, not the least of which was it's revitalization by the Blues Brothers. Now I have to ask you, when you first became aware of the Blues Brothers, and what you thought about all of that. Sam Moore 37:56 I just thought they were. They were good on Saturday Night Live. I really enjoyed every Saturday, I would watch John and Danny you know, when they were doing when John was doing Joe Cocker and, and then, you know, I lightened the beads and corn and I liked all that stuff. I did. And the first time they did so man with the glasses and the hat and the suit. Wow. That's, that's that's me. You know, that's great. Pete Fornatale 38:32 You know, as as funny as the image of the two of them was they were dead? Absolutely dead serious about their music. Yeah, yeah. You know, brought your guys Yeah. Oh, yeah. to back them up. Sam Moore 38:45 That was Danny, Danny did all this. Then he did all this. And, and it bothered. At the time it bothered Dave. It really, ohdave was livid. And he you know, I was more livid because so I got angry because we were number one in the r&b charts. And going to number one in the pop side, and here comes along. It comes a song going to Sarah with love. And I was blaming my friend at the time, which is Sydney, we at home we caught him Sydney Portier you know, Mr. Newport, he ate. And I used to it every time I would meet up with him. I was like, you know, you kept me I don't get me. I don't know one. And he would laugh and smile. That gentleman, you know that like He's such a gentleman. And every time I used to count me out, I'm number one. So one time he was getting ready to do he had just finished doing Mandela and I walked up to him and I and I beat my fingers. You kept me up and he straightened up. He said Sam Stop first of all, young fella I don't sing. Second of all, if you have a problem get back with your record company. You get away from me real and my wife was just dying. Gonna get tired of me with a life I didn't have number one. So other than that sales so man didn't bother me, you know cuz it was just a parody and it was fun and, Pete Fornatale 38:49 and it was affectionate. Yes. I was gonna say about Sidney at least he didn't say to you they call me Mr. Tim. you have been paid many compliments over the years by artists that have been influenced by you. None more than probably the biggest guy in rock and roll today, Bruce Springsteen, I'm curious to know how that relationship came about. Sam Moore 41:17 Bruce and I have been friends for over 40 some odd years. The first time Bruce, as he tells it, and I didn't know it at the time. But I I remember him coming to the clubs in Asbury Park to see Sam and Dave, who were doing those two and three hour shows. But he, as he tells it, he came to Fort Dix, the first time to see Sam and they actually he said he came to see me because he liked the way I was dealing with the band and jumping all over the place and and singing he said he couldn't believe somebody was saying up the ceiling and, and singing and jumping all over the stage. And a passion that I had, and class an hour more of, you know, friends at that time acquaintances, then Bruce, Bruce would come by classes. beach house when I was still with sometime I didn't get back to New York. And he would come upstairs and say, you get dressed. You come down. Bruce it downstairs. Yeah, Bruce downstairs, when I come down and say who's sitting right by the door on the couch. Never seen it the only thing he will say to me, hello and I'll say hello back. And never had a conversation. Never had a conversation. But we were friends, we turn out to be friends. And anytime he gets a chance to, you know, do things without sing whatnot Pete Fornatale 42:59 In fact he gave you the call in the early 90s When he was doing the human touch album you're represented on here? On a number of tracks. Okay, what do you recall about working in the studio with Bruce, Sam Moore 43:16 the hardest working man in the world? Because the same way he the way he writes, is the way you have to say the phrase to say, if you're going to phrase your phrase the same, because he's not going to take any words out. He's not going to excuse anything by making it comfortable for you make it comfortable yourself. But he's not going to take a word out of there. And so when I did the first and he called me back for the second and then what I was doing for the second, we did a two and a three with a four I think it was and it was I was having, usually I don't have that much of a problem with if I'm on a guest on someone's record or whatnot happen. But I was having problems, you know, getting those roots fitted into the, to the to the to those the lyrics, actually to the song. And I go back into the and I said it. I think I said it to Joyce. I said I'm having problems here. I can't you know, she said Don't talk to me. Don't talk to me while you're telling me tell Ruth I would say hey, look. No, Sam, you're doing fine. You're doing great. So I'm gonna you come into the studio. Let me eyeball you. You eyeball me. Let me look at you. And let's say no, say no. Say, No. I can't get this thing. So he came in grudgingly and you sat down and we got it over with but other than that, I had to just do what I heard over the we would have been there until now. Sam Moore 43:40 The one we're going to play is the one called man's job from human touch by Bruce Springsteen on mixed bag radio Pete Fornatale 45:04 that's man's job from human touch by Bruce Springsteen with his special guest Sam more we'll be talking more to Sam in just a minute
01:47:01 2821.17	SEGMENT THREE OF INTERVIEW: Pete Fornatale 47:02 Pete Fornatale back with you on mixbag radio with my special guest today. Sam Moore. Sam. We know that it is hard for couples in a marriage to stay together. We know that it's hard for partners in business to stay together. And it's certainly hard for Duo's in music to stay together. Simon and Garfunkel come to mind. Even the Everly Brothers haven't really read about them. So I know that you and Dave parted company and got back together and parted company and got back together. Tell me something great about your partnership with Dave and tell me something that tore the two of you point. Sam Moore 47:44 I Pete we started I'm not too sure. I'm still out to lunch. I'm trying to put it as tactful as I can. I'm not too sure that if Dave and I hadn't been together, and I thought at this some weeks ago that I would have we would have gotten soulman. We've forgotten Hold on I'm coming. Something's wrong with my baby. I'm not. And I'm still at the lunch on there. So he we came to Memphis as a package. The package was worked well. If I think if the way Isaac had put it put the package to work to surround me to do what I I had to do. It would have worked but yet again you must understand we as as a people sometime we can week we listen. We don't we don't listen to the heart. We listen with this and we talk too much. And we let that talk get into the wrong places some time. And that's that those two things between i i You know, and I hear between our ears and it went from sugar to sugar. And I think I formulated the the breakup, because I knew I knew within myself I knew I knew I could sing I knew I could see more than just soul man I'm gonna saying so man with Dave. I'm gonna say hold on I'm going with they want to say something's wrong with today. But I can say more than say, Oh man, it's I can sing a lot of things. If given the chance. I was a bit he became like the albatross to the point that the people that was with us that we surrounded ourselves with, we did that to ourselves. No one to blame, you can't put a blame there. we surrounded ourselves with the people to the point that they said, Well, you, I don't think you can do that. Sam. Nobody wants to hear you alone. We don't, you know, basically, you're not that good without Dave. Really and pretty soon my friend again listening it starts to take its whole its toll on you. He said well, maybe maybe they are right, maybe. And then after I did the the album what 33 years ago. And they didn't put it out. Since then it's been straightened out. But at that time, and they didn't put it out in heard one song one day, they didn't have the next day. So maybe they're right. Maybe they're right, maybe I'm not that good with that. Pete Fornatale 51:08 You start doubting yourself, Sam Moore 51:09 start doubting yourself. And I went back. I let the man, the manager and all other people that around. I went back and said hey, let's try to get so when they came out with soul man and things like that. I came back to New York. And it's messed up again. I missed it myself got messed up again. Then I left again. And I said I don't want to hear no more about this. I left. And the next time I left Dave for the last time was 19 I think it was 1981. And I said I'm either going to get a break. Somebody's gonna listen to me hopefully. Or I'm just going to deal with this dope. Well, I didn't get the break and I dealt with the dope. for 15 years. 15 years, right in the city. Pete Fornatale 52:15 What was the lowest point? Sam Moore 52:16 The lowest point is when I when I when my girlfriend at the time we moved in on 51st at a hotel, a little flea bitten hotel. It was only nine $10 A night. And we couldn't keep that up. And we will put out after four days. And we walked the street and she slept in a car. We slept on a car and when they would find me sometimes to do a job. We would work for the dope dealer. Work for the wet t shirt night. We would work for word for club that had the fake Elvis's. And we opened for the fake Elvis. And that guy said did you do 30 minutes today if you if in because they knew the way it was already out Sam and Dave junkies, you know, if you can do give us 30 minutes and get off the stage. And that was it. So that's that was at lowest Pete Fornatale 53:26 what turned it around for you Sam Moore 53:28 I when I left Dave and I said to Dave I remember saying today, I don't know where I'm going Dave. I don't know what I'm gonna even be alive next week or tonight after I leave here. But I gotta get myself together. I gotta. But what I what I like to say to you is less keep the avenue open. The name still means something. It still means we can still play the venues. Maybe 1500 900. Maybe. But let's keep that open lets you and I communicate to the point of keeping the communicative lines open. Well, I'm pretty sure Dave was hurt by that time. And I know he was hurt. And he was disappointed. And so he didn't do it. And then next thing I knew he had got a Dave guy and his name was Dave and they went out and I was still saying Oh, and Pete Fornatale 54:36 well that had to hurt. Sam Moore 54:37 It hurts so bad that I had to go too far to suing this guy cease and desist. And it was the same day that brooke bennett past the day, the night. That night the night before. David Yeah, that night Dave died in the next day Brooke Bennett. passed and I remember Joy going to Jersey to go to the courts to issue a cease and desist to stop the SAM and Dave yes it did Pete It hurt it hurts okay because this guy yes he was Dave there was no question we started Sam and Dave and there was whenever he had said said if they had have said they prayed his Sam and Dave nothing I could have done you may have hurt me it'll bother me but didn't nothing because he That's right. He was Dave he was the original but to go out and say you're salmonella, the original Sam and Dave and then the lies that came out of that I had cancer then some said that I was the West Coast Sam and Dave but he was the East Coast and then somebody said that the word got out that I had retired then I went to see the show in Vegas. In Vegas I live by for a cease and desist the drop the thing off, and I saw the guy and the guy and I went to school together. Pete Fornatale 56:07 Listen, I can sum it up in a sense if it ain't Sam Moore it ain't Sam and Dave, end of story. Sam Moore 56:13 I appreciate that. Thank you so much Pete. Pete Fornatale 56:16 Dave was killed in a car crash in 1988 I believe. Ironically, a movie that you were a part of last year was called only the strong survive Could we apply the title of that picture to you? Sam Moore 56:36 Yes. I don't mind being called a survivor I don't it doesn't bother me one bit. Because for for what ever I may have done mentally physically or emotionally I did it to Sam I did it Sam Moore they may have sold me the the needle or the whatever you want to call it but I'm the one who I'm the one who put the the rope around my arm and did it I'm the one who bought the drugs no I did not have anyone to say no. To say I'll help you I had to do this on my own but I did survive and I went from 120 118 and you can if you look at and I guess I'll somebody if you want, I'm back Pete Fornatale 57:34 I love it. Were you happy with the finished version of only the strong survive? Sam Moore 57:39 Yes and I'm so glad you know i I'm very pleased about it and I'm glad that they added some more people go there are some people on there that didn't know that they are going to see you know like Mack rice demand that road Mustang Sally and things of that nature and you're going to see the young man that you don't miss your water to you well, you know and and stuff like that. And people people I can stand the rain in a they equate that to Tina, but it's really Ann Peebles Ann Peebles. So you're gonna see some wonderful thing Pete Fornatale 58:15 Isaac's in there too. Didn't the two of you do a couple of things together. Letterman. Sam Moore 58:21 We did. No I did Letterman and then he and I did Wayne Brady and Leno Pete Fornatale 58:31 All right. All right. Well, you can see this for yourself on the recently released DVD only the strong survive you do one of your one of the classics associated with you in the in the film Sam What can you tell me about it? Sam Moore 58:48 I think I'm doing what Soul Man and Pete Fornatale 58:50 No we got when something Sam Moore 58:52 something is wrong with my baby. Yeah Soul Man I think and I think they say they've added Did they say they added a song to it. Hold on. I'm coming. Okay hold on. I'm coming. Pete Fornatale 59:04 I think we're going to do when something is wrong with my baby from the DVD. of only the strong survive Sam Moore 59:12 Thank you. Pete Fornatale 59:16 That Sam more from the soundtrack of only the strong survive the CD is the DVD excuse me is available now. We heard when something is wrong with my baby. You have received many honors over the years Sam which ones mean the most to you? Sam Moore 59:42 If 1992 I was inducted into the Hall of Fame Pete Fornatale 59:47 Tell me about that night Sam Moore 59:48 I was I had a 24 hour flu and with nerves in my nerves. I like to believe also my nerves have a lot to do with the I was nervous I think the most enjoyable thing was to walk up on stage and was standing there being being inducted by Billy Joel. And he steps back. What as he's speaking in order, and I, I feel this Lucent nice tap on the shoulder. And the guy and I turned around and I looked at this guy said, Hi, Sam. My name is Johnny Cash. Oh my god. Oh, King Pete. Now you can can you imagine that? Can you imagine? That's the best. That was the best. That was the best to hear that feel that? It was? It was a gentle tap, you know? Because Johnny is a tall big man, you know. And he just tapped me. I didn't know he knew me. And I didn't know. And he said, Hi, Sam, of Johnny Cash. Pete Fornatale 1:00:56 Lovely. Just lovely. Couple of things. Oh, I've got a couple of things that I forgot to ask you earlier that I just want to touch upon real quickly. Being around Memphis as you were ever any encounters with Elvis any any? Any Sam Moore 1:01:13 I saw the shadow of him. couldn't miss it. He was going to the studio the same place with David I recorded stacks and they were recording him. They're down there. And he got out of a truck. You know, they brought him in a true tour with him in a truck. And I saw this big hat. And And will you know whose they did? That was Elvis Presley. Okay, but they wouldn't be back here. So no, I know of Pete Fornatale 1:01:38 Now, another friend of yours. And on the surface, one would not think of a connection with this particular musician, but apparently there was a friendship between you and Henry Mancini. Sam Moore 1:01:50 Henry Mancini Yes. Pete Fornatale 1:01:53 Tell me. How about that relationship? Sam Moore 1:01:56 Yeah, hey, can I show that was a tribute to Joe Williams in Las Vegas. And they put it they put Henry. I call him Hank. We all call him Hank. Who knew him? And we share the same dressing room. And he's sitting at the piano and he's practicing the Pink Panther, you know? And he's talking to me, and I didn't again, I don't know, this man know, my work. You know, I don't you know, and I had Henry Mancini you know? So he gets up. And it's time for him to go on because he wants to get the leaflike or you want to catch his daughter's show right in LA. So he puts this tie on? And he turns to me and he said, What do you think Sam, you're like, me, you know me, you know? I'm my mouth. You know? I said, Hank, I gotta tell you. That's the most ugliest tie I've seen in my life. He stopped and he looks at me, he said "who in the hell asked you?" and I stood there. And the closure on this. I'm standing there getting ready to the wait on him to go back to the hotel, and I hear the Pink Panther. That's funny. Isn't it funny? Isn't it? Nice? That's lovely. Other one, I run into some wonderful people in my life as much pot negative as I've had. I don't complain. Pete Fornatale 1:03:26 I'm going to ask you about one more because I know it's it's someone dear to your heart involves a project that you and Joyce are working on. And that's Mary wells. Now Mary was Motown. Yeah. And you were sags? Vote? Yes. How did those paths cross what Sam Moore 1:03:42 she enjoys the joys knows the story much better than I. But Mary and Mary and I know each other. Mary passed. But you know what, she left? A wonderful little girl sugar that we have now taken under our wings and our hearts. And I love and she just left the house last week. I sweet. Yes. And hopefully, she's 17 Now, and this year she'll be 18. Right? This year should be 18. And hopefully she's gonna come back on. She said two weeks from now. And hopefully she's gonna live with us. Pete Fornatale 1:04:24 Is she does she want to perform? Sam Moore 1:04:27 Well Yeah, my granddaughter, you know, you know, my wife and my granddaughter. You know, they, you know, the other day these you know, they said, they came in and they were sitting at the kitchen table and and I said, Oh, sugar I said, you know, you want the same baby I said I'm saying and you know what, the both there was so mean. No, don't say Oh, I said don't be so mean to and I said baby I say you can sing what your question Oh, no, she can't sing Pete Fornatale 1:05:07 you're in trouble now. I know you're trying to raise money in fundraising specifically for what, Sam? No, no. Oncology, the renaming the Oncology Center at Norris USC. Sam Moore 1:05:29 Oh Yeah. You know about that? Sam Moore 1:05:37 I'm glad you said that, Peter. Because now we can go back and give that give that some more attention. It had this it stopped. It stopped for a while. And a lot of people that were supposed to have come aboard whatever reasons they did, but hide it gives us something not to go back and talk to Dr. Streeter and the rest of the staff at the Norris and to try to raise the font, it's not that much. But it gives us a chance to get attention to Pete Fornatale 1:06:08 and it's to have the winger we named after him. Is there a website or somewhere where people can get information? Okay. Pete Fornatale 1:06:43 well, please keep us posted. We can help Sam Moore 1:06:46 spread the word. Thank you for saying that. Pete Fornatale 1:06:51 Sam, your your place in music history is solid. There's only one way I can think of ending this first time visit to mixbag radio and that is to say, I thank you. Sam Moore 1:07:07 And may I say thank you back. Thank you Pete Pete Fornatale 1:07:12 You know what you're going to be playing I just have to put an ending on this and we'll let you out of here. Standby. Sam Moore 1:07:21 Okay. Pete Fornatale 1:07:22 And that just about does it for this edition of mixed bag radio. My thanks to the great Sam Moore for being our guest thanks also to Executive Producer Bill Colart to Vice President in charge of Artist Relations Chris Hall and vice president in charge of syndication Linda fetter. Special thanks this week to the Gibson Baldwin showroom in New York City. If you'd like to know more about our program, please visit our website at mixed bag radio.com This is Pete Fornatale Thanks for listening. And thank you for being here today.
02:09:48 4188	SAM MOORE RECORDS A PROMO FOR THE SHOW: Sam Moore 1:09:48 Hi. This is Sam Moore. And you're now listening to mixed bag radio with Pete Fornatale. That's a cute name.
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