This reel is part of one of our Specialty Collections. Online viewing or downloads of low-res versions for offline viewing will be available for only more day, though. Online viewing or downloads of low-res versions for offline viewing has now expired, though, and cannot be viewed online. "Pro" account holders can download a low-res version without audio for offline viewing.
Sign up for a "Pro" account to download this footage.
This reel is currently not available for online viewing.
Sorry, this video is temporarily unavailable for online viewing or download. Please try again later.
Restricted Material
Access to this reel with audio is restricted. It will be available for only more day.
Access to this reel with audio has expired.
04:00:00 0 |
|
04:00:04 4.02 |
WNET NY Graphic.
|
04:01:19 79.39 |
Blank
|
04:01:36 96.61 |
Title Slate: the Eleventh Hour #163 - Abortion
Rec: 4/10/89 |
04:01:54 113.68 |
Blank
|
04:02:04 124.03 |
Funding for the show by announcer and overlays The Eleventh Hour graphic.
|
04:02:16 136.28 |
The Eleventh Hour graphic and show opener
|
04:02:35 154.89 |
Show opens with a clip from a demonstration in Washington, D.C. for keeping abortion legal. Marching band drummers leading demonstration. Protestors holding signs "Keep Abortion Legal", shouting, chanting.
|
04:02:48 168.04 |
Woman at podium talking to unseen crowd on steps of the US Capital building in Washington, D.C. "Roe v Wade means keeping government out of our bedrooms"
|
04:02:52 172.1 |
African American woman in crowd of people raises arm up in the air shouts (unheard)
|
04:02:53 172.81 |
Pan out from huge crowd of demonstrators jammed in front of the US Capital building
|
04:02:54 173.75 |
Crowd of demonstrators carrying signs, the front line of people holding long banner "keep abortion...safe... (obscured).
|
04:02:56 176.33 |
Hand holding two metal hangers up in the air
|
04:02:59 178.69 |
Whoopie Goldbert at podium on Capital steps - speaks, "Hangers as an alternative are wrong!"
|
04:03:03 182.98 |
Wide shot of the demonstration - thousands of people, possibly half a million according to Robert Lipsyte who is narrating
|
04:03:11 191.15 |
Variety of different age people, grandmothers, daughters, grandfathers - holding sign reads: "At 91, I Shall not fade, I'm Pro-Roe & Anti-Wade
|
04:03:17 197.2 |
In the studio, Host Robert Lipsyte welcomes viewers to the show and introduces himself. He talks about the topic of tonight's program - the women in fear of losing their rights to abortion due to a Supreme Court case coming up (1989) that could modify or overturn the Roe vs. Wade decision.
|
04:03:40 219.83 |
Host Lipsyte announces introduces his first guest, Suzanne Lynn, Chief of the Civil Rights Bureau of the NY Attorney General's Office to discuss the scenario if Roe Vs. Wade being overturned.. Lynn sitting in front of large poster that reads: Don't Lose (partially obscured) the Right to Choose. Crime scene tape is draped to her rear left reads: March for Women's Equality (obscured) Women's Lives
|
04:04:13 252.77 |
INTERVIEW INSERT:
Robert Lipsyte: what's really at stake here. The worst case scenario of Roe v Wade being overturned. What what's going to happen in America? Suzanne Lynn Well, there are several scenarios around the Webster case which is the name of the abortion case now before the Supreme Court. The worst case scenario would be that the Supreme Court would accept the Justice Department's invitation to overrule Roe Roe v Wade. In other words, to repudiate the constitutional right to privacy that they first enunciated in Roe v. Wade, if that were to happen, and that's by no means clear that it would essentially what it would do is return the law to its pre rose status and allow states to to do with abortion as they will, that means that they would have the option of re criminalizing it, or they could continue keeping it legal and accessible, or they could do any number of things in between restricted in various ways in the name of regulating it. So that if if the court did repudiate Roe v. Wade, I think what you would have is a certain amount of chaos, at least for some years Robert Lipsyte You would have two different laws on abortion and one in each state, perhaps Suzanne Lynn that's entirely possible. There may be a few states, my prediction would be that a few states would keep it legal and as accessible as it is now. But my sense is that would be relatively few states and I would say that probably a greater number would decide to re criminalize it. And then you would have middle group of states in between who would restrict it Robert Lipsyte a state like New York might very well become a center for abortions. And people who could afford to come here would and people who can't wouldn't be able to Suzanne Lynn Yes, well, in fact, recent history gives us a way to predict what would happen under that scenario. Most people probably don't realize this, but New York was one of four states that legalized abortion prior to Roe v. Wade. This state legalized it in 1970, along with I believe, Colorado, Alaska and Hawaii. And very shortly New York became an abortion mecca for women around the country. The statistics show that in 1970, in the first year of the liberalized law, over almost two thirds of all abortions performed New York City were performed a non resident women. So I think we can safely predict that if New York kept it legal, and I'm not predicting with absolute certainty that it would, but assuming that it did, you would have women pouring in from all all over the place seeking abortions. Robert Lipsyte And we also see that the field the specter of once again, the back alley abortion is the botched abortions, women women dying of septic abortions. Suzanne Lynn Oh, absolutely. I mean, you're talking about if you had a situation where you had a patchwork of state laws, and some a few states kept it legal, like New York, the women who are going to take advantage of that are women who are fortunate enough to have the means and the resources to travel from out of state. |
04:07:28 448.27 |
INTERVIEW CONTIUES
Robert Lipsyte Could you very briefly tell me there's a point in this what I always get lost is exactly what privacy means in this? Suzanne Lynn Well, you have to understand Roe v. Wade was not decided in a vacuum. It was merely the combination of a long line of cases starting back over 50 years ago in which the Supreme Court began articulating a so called constitutional right to privacy. Now privacy is not mentioned in the Constitution. But the general thinking behind the right is that there are certain areas of life that are so intimate and personal to the individual, that the government has no business interfering with individuals in the exercise of their rights within that intimate sphere. And it started out in areas such as the right to raise one children, one's children as one sees fit. And it progressed from there. And through the 1965 decision in Griswold against Connecticut where the court said that the use of contraceptives was part of the privacy right. And from there on in it progressed to Roe v. Wade. But the privacy right encompasses a number of activities. And procreative choice is only one of those activities. Robert Lipsyte You were an ACO you lawyer for a long time. How do you feel about so called pro lifers equating what they do with abolitionists and civil rights activists. Suzanne Lynn Well, I'm personally offended by that I, I don't like the the name of the Civil Rights Movement invoked lightly. And I think that what these two movements are about are are really entirely different things. The right to life movement, so called right to life movement, I think is about is really about denying women the exercise of their freedom, and so that they can become full moral agents and full citizens in every sense. The Civil Rights Movement was obviously about bringing into the constitution and into the mainstream of life, a whole group of people that had been ignored and despised. I think, also that anti abortionists draw a false analogy when they try to compare the two movements. And that's because in the civil rights movement, the black civil rights movement, black people were fighting for recognition as full human beings, that that recognition did not require that white people in any sense put themselves out be inconvenienced in any way. The recognition of blacks as human beings was a plus for whites, it was not a negative. On the other hand, the right to life movement demands that women give over their bodies and their freedom and their futures. For the sake of these, what I consider to be beings that are of less than full human and moral status, Robert Lipsyte Suzanne Lynn, thank you so much for being with us. |
04:10:28 628.07 |
Host Lipsyte (No More Abortions poster behind him) thanks Suzanne Lynne and cuts to an offset pre-taped interview with two women, one who had an illegal abortion in 1946 (Cecille-a pseudonm in fear of retribution from anti-abortion activitists) and another (Denise Santiago)who had a legal one after Roe vs. Wade was passed.
|
04:10:59 659.13 |
INTERVIEW:
"Cecile": By 1946, we had two children, a boy and a girl, the girl was only 11 months old. In those days, people mostly use a diaphragm for contraception, which I was using, but nothing is 100% foolproof, and I found myself pregnant again. At that point, my husband was earning a living, we were middle class, and we just felt the two children is enough to bring up properly. So I started to seek out a way to obtain an abortion. I knew abortions were not legal in those days, I went to my gynecologist as first choice. He said, I can't touch you, I will lose my license. |
04:11:21 680.82 |
B&W photo still circa 1940's, pretty young woman at the beach in one piece bathing suit shielding the sun from her face with her arm. Cecille narrates over photo.
|
04:12:16 736.33 |
B&W photo, circa 1973, of young and pretty dark skinned girl, Denise Santiago as she narrates over photo about having an abortion at the time because she was not ready to have a child.
|
04:12:34 754.06 |
INTERVIEW INSERT CONTINUES WITH CECILLE AND DENISE (OFF SET)
Robert Lipsyte She visited Five Doctors before she found one willing to help her. Even then the doctor was afraid to give her the complete address. Cecile Well, the doctor on Park Avenue after examining me said yes, I will give you part of an address before numbers. Tomorrow morning at nine o'clock, here's my phone number call me. I'll give you the balance of the address. You have to bring $800 in cash, which to me was a phenomenal amount of money to dig up over night. And come alone. Don't bring your husband come alone. I was going to an unknown quantity. I was going to someone I didn't know. I was having an operational procedure performed. And I was scared. I didn't know if I'd make it back home. And if I did in what condition I'd be. Robert Lipsyte Denise went to the Women's Health Center at Montefiore Hospital in the Bronx. There she met with a counselor and made an appointment for an abortion the following week. Denise Santiago My boyfriend at the time went with me. I saw the counselor again for a few minutes. She asked me if I still wanted to go through with it. And I said sure. And she accompanied me into the room. It's not even a surgical room. It's just an examination room whether what the procedure is done. And I was introduced to the doctor. And both of them just explained everything that was going on all the time so that I was aware. They told me that I was going to feel a pinch and of course I did feel a pinch. So that everything was good. |
04:13:39 819.29 |
Young Spanish woman, Denise Santiago, in kitchen cutting up food on a plate.
|
04:14:30 870.56 |
Older woman (Cecille) riding in backseat of car through residential neighborhood gazing out window as they pass by older brick buildings and peds
|
04:14:38 878 |
wide shot woman walking up to front door of old yellow brick apartment building, tilt up to top floor
|
04:14:45 885.14 |
Interior set of brown French doors gated on the outside, a woman's figure can be seen peering in from the outside
|
04:14:49 888.67 |
Man holding a box walks through French doors of building, woman walks in as man goes out.
|
04:15:15 915.53 |
Woman walking casually out of yellow brick building toward camera, turns and walks until out of the frame.
|
04:15:27 926.91 |
Woman walking slowly down a residential street of apartment buildings past a postal box with graffiti, rows of apartment buildings, some cars driving by.
|
04:15:54 954.07 |
New York Times Newspaper article: "Bronx Raid nets Abortion Suspects - 4 Held in Abortion case, Woman and Man are Accused by Police as "Steerers"
|
04:16:26 985.78 |
Denise Santiago in a bright yellow jacket walking her dog down the street, she narrates about her legal abortion.
|
04:16:57 1016.95 |
The Eleventh Hour graphic overlay wide shot of studio. Host Robert Lipsyte is seen seated with two female guests
|
04:17:08 1028.53 |
Back in the studio Host Robert Lipsyte introduces and welcomes his next guests who have opposing views: Sidney Callahan, Psychology Professor and Editor; Rosalind Petchesky, Professor of Women's Studies Hunter College.
|
04:17:34 1054.38 |
INSERT INTERVIEW:
Robert Lipsyte: the prime objective of feminism was to give a woman equality, which would include rights over her own body, how can you be a feminist and not want a woman to have reproductive rights? Sidney Callahan 17:51 Well I think that women were once considered part of the body of males. And we saw that this was unjust, that they were separate, that they were equal, there's a moral right to equality. And I think feminists for life, which I'm a member, and just life and people who are on the part of the liberal pro life movement, consider that the unborn should have the same equality that women once had for the same reasons women were thought they weren't human, they had no potential they weren't equal. And we think that the unborn are a group that needs to be protected. And that it behooves women to be nurturing and to really think about maternal thinking and care about the human offspring. Rosalind Petchesky 18:35 Well, unfortunately, I Sydney knows. My view. And the view of a lot of feminists who consider themselves pro choice is that the situation that a woman faces in pregnancy is that if a fetus were considered an equal person, her pregnancy would become an inform of involuntary servitude. There's not any way around that conflict. It's a real conflict. Now, what I think differs between maybe Sydney and myself, I don't know Sydney, correct me if I'm wrong, because I don't want to distort your position. I think the abortion debate has a lot to do with motherhood and with the responses of both feminists and anti feminists to motherhood, what is a woman's responsibility in child rearing and childbearing? And I think that feminists have been misinterpreted as being anti motherhood. When in fact, I think what a lot of us are trying to say is that we are pro motherhood, but we are pro motherhood in a conscious, aware way. That motherhood is not simply a function of biology. motherhood is a set of practices, a set of moral attitudes, a set of responsibilities to children, and that In, I would say 99% of the cases, women getting abortions are taking the practice of motherhood very seriously. They're not acting morally, Robert Lipsyte 20:10 they don't want to bring a child into the world that they're not going to be able to take care of properly. Rosalind Petchesky 20:15 And they want to prepare that very much. And also, they want to prepare themselves, to, in fact, be the kinds of nurturers caretakers and to share with men or with other women in that responsibility in the fullest, and the clearest way possible, Robert Lipsyte 20:34 because Sidney, sometimes, it really seems to come down, one would think that it comes down to the fetus versus the woman. Sidney Callahan 20:44 Well, that's what I would contend that we can never have our maternal and maternity taken seriously, if we start out, saying that the first right is to kill our offspring. And by the way, I don't think everyone is as nurturance as Roz and the feminist movement. That's not I don't think the total picture there, but Robert Lipsyte 21:05 Let me just stop you for a moment because you use the phrase to kill our offspring. And that's off putting to me, in the sense that it's not a born child. It's not an offspring yet. Sidney Callahan 21:16 Well, it's part of the human community. Genetically, it's related. It's took a million years of evolution to get that far Robert Lipsyte 21:23 That is a religious viewpoint Sidney Callahan 21:25 I do not think so i think that that's metaphysical, viewpoint, metaphysical and moral belief, like all women are equal to men is not a religious play. A i metaphysical, thought that life begins at conception is not a metaphysical belief, woman, men who are agnostics could believe that. So I think a religious belief is there is a God and one should worship it. But I think you can have metaphysical and moral beliefs. All people have equal protection under the law, the unborn are a member of the human community blue. Well, I don't think they're persons but the neither. I think there are people who are on the way to becoming like us, human beings like us. I have been that everyone around here has been that. And I think that if we think that motherhood can be built for maternity care, it can be built on the idea that if I choose to have you, you have rights, that's what men always tell women. If I choose if I want you you have rights, if I don't, you have none. And I think this idea that we make humans human by our choice is a very dangerous and very debilitating idea for our culture. You're the mother of six, yes, I am, I had seven I had one sudden infant death. And I think that, that the experience of having children, having children empowers women, I had them all with natural childbirth, before that, people thought that was the right way to do it. And I had to fight the medical establishment for that. So I should say, I'm very much in favor of the ERA, I'm very much in favor of contraception. I'm very, very worked in the peace movement, because I don't think you can kill innocent people by nuclear arms against capital punishment. For me, this is an extension of the liberal ideology to another group. And I think that many people like me, |
04:23:13 1392.78 |
INTERVEIW CONTINUES:
Robert Lipsyte 23:14 Ros in the sense of very often it is fetus versus woman. And certainly there is a difference of opinion of when life begins, and some people feel that is a religious decision. And medical science certainly has not made it clear one way or another. So in a sense, sometimes it that choice is made and innocence, maybe it's justifiable homicide, if it's protecting some other life. Rosalind Petchesky 23:43 Can we I'd like to go back to some of the things that Sidney was saying because see, to me, Sidney represents Robert Lipsyte 23:49 I would like you to do you think it's justifiable? homicide. I mean, if in deed Rosalind Petchesky 23:54 I don't think it's homicide, because homicide under the law, Homicide is the killing of a quote, man, that is a human being in the sense of a born person. I think legally, that's what homicide means. And you don't feel that I don't think feticide is the same as homicide under the law. Robert Lipsyte 24:11 No answer what do you want for yourself? Rosalind Petchesky 24:15 I would have no I have no problem with the definition of fetuses as part of the ecosystem as part of life. And as part of genetic human life. There isn't any. I mean, there's no problem. We kill forms of life, in all manners, from how we get our food, from how in some ways we change and transform it in other ways we destroy our ecosystem. We make choices and decisions that affect life daily, and what angers me is that the one decision that women make about life is condemned. Whereas as a lot of my Catholic feminist sisters have pointed out the decisions that men make to destroy millions of people or to take the lives of those people in their hands are not questioned in the same, absolutely condemning way. I would feel more persuaded by certainly the right to lifers in including the feminist, the people who call themselves right to lifers, and including the feminists for life, except that, oh, I accept that Sidney as a feminist. Of course, she's a feminist, there are many differences among feminists, although I do think it's very contradictory to be a feminist, as you were saying before, and to deny women, the capacity and the moral agency to make decisions about their pregnancies. I think that's contradictory Sidney Callahan 25:49 It's not contraception I'm against. Rosalind Petchesky 25:51 Well, thats what I was about to say. If I saw the anti abortionist is out there visibly and vocally, in the campaigns for preventive measures, if I saw them taking what I would consider logical steps for people who want to say fetuses, that is massively campaigning for improving access to contraception in the society, we have the lowest rates of contraceptive use, and the highest rates of unwanted pregnancy of any industrial country. Sidney Callahan 26:23 And we have the lowest help for maternity. That's so I think that is not an accident in this new book by Mary Ann Glendon says an abortion Divorce Law of 20 countries, we are the worst, and we have no protection for the fetus. And we have no help for women in the maternity maternity leaves, family support. So I think this is one thing feminist could get together on Robert Lipsyte 26:48 That's you know, that's a kind of a reality, because if Roe v Wade is overturned, that really means that a lot of women are going to have unwanted children who are not going to be brought up properly, who are going to become a burden to themselves to their mothers to the state. And it also means that a lot of women are going to be driven to back alley abortion is to botch abortion, it's to and as people of my age, recall that everybody knew somebody who died and the terror that people went through, and that that really seems not to square with, you know, your very strong feelings about nurturing and peace and non violence. Sidney Callahan 27:25 Well, let me first say that it's been shown that many wanted children are abused 90% of them, it's why you want them. So being wanted or unwanted doesn't protect you. I think that the idea of having inalienable rights that the government will support and help you is most important thing, as in child abuse. We don't let people decide whether they are abusing their children or not. Now for the question of which Robert Lipsyte 27:53 I'm going to stop you there. Sydney Callahan. Rosalind Petchesky, thank you so very much for being with us. This is the 11th hour. I'm Robert Lipsyte. |
04:27:58 1678.33 |
interview concludes. Lipsyte thanks Callahan and Petchesky . He announces the program and himself. show end.
|
04:28:05 1684.88 |
Show credits over Eleventh Hour graphics.
|
04:28:41 1721.41 |
Charitable funding by announcer and overlay The Eleventh Hour graphic.
|
04:28:57 1736.99 |
Reel end.
|
211 Third St, Greenport NY, 11944
[email protected]
631-477-9700
1-800-249-1940
Do you need help finding something that you need? Our team of professional librarians are on hand to assist in your search:
Be the first to finds out about new collections, buried treasures and place our footage is being used.
SubscribeShare this by emailing a copy of it to someone else. (They won’t need an account on the site to view it.)
Note! If you are looking to share this with an Historic Films researcher, click here instead.
Oops! Please note the following issues:
You need to sign in or create an account before you can contact a researcher.
Invoice # | Date | Status |
---|---|---|
|