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Aerial of Host Robert Lipsyte sitting at desk in studio, The Eleventh Hour graphic overlay.

Host Lipsyte discusses the topic of today's program - the economic renaissance of Newark, New Jersey and the human price of the progress. Is it worth it?

Woman in soup kitchen passing plate of food through kitchen passthrough

African American man in dining hall of soup kitchen, people sitting at tables, he thanks the Lord for the food about to be received.

Lipsyte narrates over scenes at the Newark South Park Temple Soup Kitchen.
Woman preparing plates of food. The soup kitchen is being forced to close down.

A table lined up with food on paper plates, plastic utensils on each one.

Pan out on The Newark Lighthouse Temple Soup Kitchen building with large white columns, sign on door, iron fence, ped walking by. Host Lipsyte narrates about the building, an old church, is about to be torn down

Man serving plates of food to people in soup kitchen

Reverand James Parrot and unknown gentleman speaking to unseen interviewer about the forced shutting down of the Newark South Park Temple Soup Kitchen.

Tilt up old stone cathedral

Woman walking up to front door of same building, knocks on door. Robert Lipsyte narrating. No one answers, she peaks in door window

Pan interior church elaborate high arched ceiling, rows of church pews, pan up on organ pipes

Engineer David Dubrow tilt up standing in front of old church in question talking to unseen interviewer stating the building is completely sound and there's no problem with the integrity of the building.

Pan across street in Newark, New Jersey to Newark Symphony Hall theatre, marquis reads Essex County Presents Wynton Marsalis Feb 3 ? (traffic light obscures year), peds crossing street, traffic.

Wide shot from across street New Symphony Hall, traffic, peds.

four paper plates of meals and plastic utensils

Reverend Parrot talks about the shutting down of the soup kitchen, supplies are gone and having to serve meals on paper plates.

Talking head African American man working in soup kitchen talking about how sad it is that the program is being shut down.

Hand holding legal document (eviction notice)

Reverend Parrot talking with unseen interviewer about finding a new home for the Soup Kitchen, has high hopes.

Host Robert Lipsyte introduces an off set guest, Camillo Viguero, Urban Sociologist

B&W photograph of a corner in downtown Newark, "Bargains" shop on corner.

Photo still of commercial area in Newark, featuring warehouses, rr tracks

Photo still two forlorn looking men huddled under a makeshift tent, could be under an overpass, dirty dark looking area.

Mr. Viguero standing on a residential Newark street, row houses lined uip behind him, talks with unseen interviewer about the hundreds of town homes being built for families with $30,000 yearly income.

Photos of older brick apartment buildings and "shabby" looking residential homes in run down neighborhoods as Viguero narrates about how new construction goes up but housing for the poor goes down.

Live shot of Newark's Symphony Hall - marquee reads Essex County (pole obscures a bit of marquee) Present, Winston Marsalis, Feb ?. Traffic going by.

Photo of gigantic high rise housing project in Newark.

Photo still of a black homeless man sitting forlornly looking over a small fire coming out of a can.

z'in on large empty lot with red sofa, tables behind chain linked fence.

z'in on same photo of homeless man sitting over a fire made in a small tin can.

Robert Lipsyte introduces his guests, Harold Lucas, Newark Director of Development; and Steve Adubato, Director, Newark North Ward Center.

INTERVIEW CONTINUES:

Robert Lipsyte:
You have a very specific where you're trying to create a society

Harold Lucas
All right, being born and raised in Newark over the last 45 years. Newark has always been a city that had a socio economic and racial mix. lately. It's been out of kilter in terms of being more of one than the other. And it's suffered because of that. The and the reagan administration's funding sources didn't help it at all. And we have more or less been stigmatized, because of the results of what's been happening. We think in order to turn that corner, which be beginning to turn, that we have to really attract more economic mixed in ratio. But when you have an economic mix, you will also have somewhat of a racial mix as well

Robert Lipsyte
Harold, what I'm kind of raising the issue, before you can bring all these middle class white people in, you might have to push some of these poor black people out.

Harold Lucas
Well I'd like to correct that. Okay. Okay. We're not talking about bringing in middle class white people, we're talking about bringing in middle class people, there's just as many middle class black people

Robert Lipsyte
You brought up the race issue

Harold Lucas
well we're just saying that from from a from the business of America, it doesn't hurt to have a somewhat of a racial mix. But to try to clarify somebody's image problems that we have, the city of Newark has approximately 7000 to 8000 vacant lots that have, since the 67 riots the bulk of the development that's going on in the city of Newark, including the housing, which is both market rate and affordable. It's done predominantly on vacant land. I don't want to bring up the word gentrification. But it's something that's been been bandied about, I think incorrectly for a number of months. But that's further from that so much. It's just not the truth.

Robert Lipsyte
Gentrification is not.

Harold Lucas
It's just not the issue.

Robert Lipsyte
What's the opposite of gentrification, to me is low income housing

Harold Lucas
Gentrification is when you take the houses of low income people, and run them out and put up houses for non low income people.

Robert Lipsyte
But these vacant lots of basically burt lots

Harold Lucas
these are lots that have been vacant for years,

Robert Lipsyte
one statistic that really astounded me was that the percentage of suspicious fires in Newark was 58%. And here in New York, where I thought we were the capital of suspicious fires, it's 16%, national average is 14%. But Newark is 58%, which, which seems to be you know, urban renewal was arson.

Stephen Adubato
You know, I'm gonna break in here. I don't like the way it First of all, the way you show the, the background of Newark from a point of view, that's valid, but it's only one point of view, Newark in order, you know, I'm old enough to have lived Newark when it worked. When there were a lot of poor, and not just middle class, Bob, working class people

Robert Lipsyte
what happens,

Stephen Adubato
what happened was, is that we became a magnet of the poor, because after World War Two, our national policies, built highways and incentives to get out of cities must we know about that

Robert Lipsyte
people must have left because they're only like, 300,000 people. It's not that big a city

Stephen Adubato
the policies of this country created incentives for working class and middle class people to leave the cities. And what happened was that Newark became a place of the poor. And that's the main thing, you know, the main thing is not merely displacing the poor, and that soup kitchen, the main thing about us is that we will keep the poor, poor and institutionally poor and forever poor. I'm talking about a city where the poor have a chance to work with middle class and, and working class people who will demand better politicians, a better newspaper, a better school, the poor alone aren't going to do it. This mix is what America great, and that's what we want to bring back to Newark and quibbling about the things we are is going to miss the point. The point is, together, we're going to do it, not concentrating on the needs of the poor, but concentrating on a needs of a total Newark society

Joan Parrot
at this point, and I agree what you're saying to a certain extent, but your last statement was to concentrate on a better society. How can you do that? I'm asking you, Steve, and I'm asking you how, without we're just totally displacing the poor. you're saying that we need a mix. You're saying that we want a better place. We want Newark to be when it was working. I think that Newark is trying to work now. But you clearly cannot do that by just busing. The poor out. Yes, Mr. Harold, you have said that we have using vacant we're using those vacant lots that are going down that are being done. Those are housing

Interview concludes. Host Lipsyte thanks guests, announces the show and introduces himself.

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